How much outside time will allow elimination of mvb?

[mini_max]

Now that it's warming up our russian tortoise (approx. 1 year old) can start spending time outside. We don't have a permanent outdoor space yet...in progress. He may not go out every day, and the amount of time will vary for now. His current mvb is at the end of its life and my question is, roughly how much time outdoors and how often would allow me to use a regular bulb instead?

Thank you.

 

[Tom]

No one has a precise answer. I have had no problems with as little as 30 minutes twice a week, but I'm farther south than you with stronger UV.

Also note that UV is strongest mid day. Morning and afternoon sun is good for warming and exercising, but it lacks UV.

 

[Tom]

Over winter, they sometimes go for 3-4 weeks with no sun and no indoor UV with no issues. I just make sure they get plenty of sun the rest of the year. It would take many months of poor diet and zero UV to start seeing MBD symptoms.

 

[mini_max]

Ok, thank you very much.

 

[johnsonnboswell]

Watch his behavior, too. Activity levels and appetite are stimulated by UVB.

 

[jaizei]

No one has a precise answer. I have had no problems with as little as 30 minutes twice a week, but I'm farther south than you with stronger UV.

Also note that UV is strongest mid day. Morning and afternoon sun is good for warming and exercising, but it lacks UV.

I think this is misleading. Saying 'it lacks UV' suggests that there would be none or not enough to be useful. But I don't think that is true. How do you define morning, mid day, & afternoon?

Also, strongest is not necessarily best for the animal.

 

[Tom]

I have no intention of writing a book on this and that is what it would take to try to fully explain it.

I think its enough to say that UV levels are very low in the morning and evening even in full sun. I don't see anything "misleading" about that at all. Its a fact I was not aware of until I got a couple of light meters, and I think its useful info to share with people who have questions about eating enough UV for their tortoises.

 

[mini_max]

Watch his behavior, too. Activity levels and appetite are stimulated by UVB.

Hmmm, his current mvb probably isn't throwing enough uvb any more. I bought a new one and it threw a really blueish looking light, and at first I thought he was hiding from that, and I returned it and went back to the old one. The problem, as we were discussing on my other thread persisted. Maybe this explains it.

 

[jaizei]

I have no intention of writing a book on this and that is what it would take to try to fully explain it.

I think its enough to say that UV levels are very low in the morning and evening even in full sun. I don't see anything "misleading" about that at all. Its a fact I was not aware of until I got a couple of light meters, and I think its useful info to share with people who have questions about eating enough UV for their tortoises.

You've already changed 'afternoon' to 'evening'. Can you specify the general times you are referring to so that we're talking about the same. What level of UV is 'very low'?

Morning and afternoon sun can provide plenty of UV; you saying that it 'lacks' UV could give someone who doesn't know better the mistaken impression that they need to get their animals out under the noon sun. Or that putting their animals out after they get home from work @3-4PM is completely useless for UV. In some places, morning or afternoon may even be the better choice. What, with all the various factors.

 

[Tom]

You've already changed 'afternoon' to 'evening'. Can you specify the general times you are referring to so that we're talking about the same. What level of UV is 'very low'?

Morning and afternoon sun can provide plenty of UV; you saying that it 'lacks' UV could give someone who doesn't know better the mistaken impression that they need to get their animals out under the noon sun. Or that putting their animals out after they get home from work @3-4PM is completely useless for UV. In some places, morning or afternoon may even be the better choice. What, with all the various factors.

Instead of questioning me, why don't you go ahead and write the book? You seem to know all about it.

In others words, rather than trying to make someone else look bad, which is your typical MO, why don't you do something useful and explain to the audience what YOUR thoughts on UV are?

 

[mike taylor]

Well I see my tortoises out in the cooler hours . Then in the heat of the day they hideout . In then when I get home about 5 o'clock they come out and snack . By 7 o'clock they are in their houses sleeping . My guys avoid midday sun . So my little leopard tortoises are put out in the morning .

 

[WithLisa]

Morning and afternoon sun can provide plenty of UV; you saying that it 'lacks' UV could give someone who doesn't know better the mistaken impression that they need to get their animals out under the noon sun. Or that putting their animals out after they get home from work @3-4PM is completely useless for UV. In some places, morning or afternoon may even be the better choice. What, with all the various factors.

It depends on where you live. In my hometown at this time of the year it's useless to put the torts outside before 11AM and after 4PM, even on sunny days. Of course there is some UV, but not enough for vitamin D sythesis (this applies to humans, but I guess it's similar for tortoises). From September until beginning of April it's completely useless, even at noon.

 

[jaizei]

Instead of questioning me, why don't you go ahead and write the book? You seem to know all about it.

In others words, rather than trying to make someone else look bad, which is your typical MO, why don't you do something useful and explain to the audience what YOUR thoughts on UV are?

I've done so plenty of times. In this instance, I wasn't the one making incorrect statements. Morning and afternoon sun does not 'lack' UV. Unless you're talking about some place like Helsinki, overcast in the middle of December then maybe it might be correct. Trying to 'nail down' specifics was to avoid that kind of evasion.

Speaking of MOs...

 

[jaizei]

It depends on where you live. In my hometown at this time of the year it's useless to put the torts outside before 11AM and after 4PM, even on sunny days. Of course there is some UV, but not enough for vitamin D sythesis (this applies to humans, but I guess it's similar for tortoises). From September until beginning of April it's completely useless, even at noon.

Exactly. This is why we have to be careful making blanket statements. I was thinking more of the other extreme - where you can measure 100µW/cm2 before 9am. In those locations, mid day sun may not be ideal, imo.

 

[WithLisa]

Exactly. This is why we have to be careful making blanket statements. I was thinking more of the other extreme - where you can measure 100µW/cm2 before 9am. In those locations, mid day sun may not be ideal, imo.

There are such locations on earth, but I live a lot further south than Helsinki and since @mini_max lives in Canada I guess she doesn't have so much UV either.
But you are right, to be sure we would have to know where exactly she lives.

 

[mini_max]

Thanks for all the concern. No worries that I have been ill advised! My take away here is that if I am going to switch to natural sunlight as my sole uv source, I will need to be cognizant of the strength of the uv at the times that he is going to be outside given that it won't be 24/7.

 

[Tom]

I've done so plenty of times...

Define "plenty"...

Your role on this forum has always been that of critic. You contribute very little other than criticism. Historically speaking. I'd love to see that trend change. Care to stick your neck out a bit so you can get a taste of your own medicine? Yeah. Didn't think so.

 

[Tom]

Morning and afternoon sun does not 'lack' UV.

Oh yes it ABSOLUTELY does. My meter says ZERO as late as 9am and as early as 4pm, depending upon the time of year. If that is not "lack"ing, I don't know what is.

Care to keep this going? Done trying to make Tom look stupid again?

 

[leigti]

If I were you, I would get a mercury vapor bulb and have an indoor enclosure for times when you may need it. I would also get a solar meter 6.5 UV index reader so you can monitor the UV levels. I have one and I find it very interesting to see how much UV there really is being put out by bulbs and the sun.

 

[Tom]

If I were you, I would get a mercury vapor bulb and have an indoor enclosure for times when you may need it. I would also get a solar meter 6.5 UV index reader so you can monitor the UV levels. I have one and I find it very interesting to see how much UV there really is being put out by bulbs and the sun.

Question: According to your meter is morning and afternoon/evening sun "lacking" in UV when compared to mid day sun?