How can i make this better?

Alyssaacurtis

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I have a horsefield tortoise who’s just under 2 years old. Excuse the sawdusty stuff everywhere it’s a bit of a mess atm. I want to find out whether this is okay or i should be adding or getting rid of anything to make sure he stays happy and healthy.

the open bit is 80cm x 60cm (2.6ft x 2ft)
The closed bit is 30cm x 60cm (0.9ft x 2ft)

i use tortoise life and hemp bedding. There is a cuttlefish bone which I purchased the other day and he’s really taken a fancy to. In the bottom left there is a pile of the hemp bedding to create a little bit of height differences. The log in the middle was bought from a pet store that does things for tortoises which he loves to climb and hide under. The hemp round the log is to make the sides less steep to prevent him from sliding down and hurting himself or his head

i have also attached a photo of the light that i use

i feel like theres not enough however i’m scared of over crowding and putting something in there which could hurt him. Any advice given is very appreciated
 

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Hamiltondood

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Richmond, Texas
I have a horsefield tortoise who’s just under 2 years old. Excuse the sawdusty stuff everywhere it’s a bit of a mess atm. I want to find out whether this is okay or i should be adding or getting rid of anything to make sure he stays happy and healthy.

the open bit is 80cm x 60cm (2.6ft x 2ft)
The closed bit is 30cm x 60cm (0.9ft x 2ft)

i use tortoise life and hemp bedding. There is a cuttlefish bone which I purchased the other day and he’s really taken a fancy to. In the bottom left there is a pile of the hemp bedding to create a little bit of height differences. The log in the middle was bought from a pet store that does things for tortoises which he loves to climb and hide under. The hemp round the log is to make the sides less steep to prevent him from sliding down and hurting himself or his head

i have also attached a photo of the light that i use

i feel like theres not enough however i’m scared of over crowding and putting something in there which could hurt him. Any advice given is very appreciated
OK so, i'd switch out the soil for some coco coir (or soil) and orchid bark. the "tortoiselife" bedding seems to have white stones in there.. not sure if it's perlite or just stones but i'd switch is out anyways. 1601662612703.png are you feeding him just spring mix? try to find weeds that haven't been sprayed with pesticides (or grow some yourself). i can't find the pictures of the lights you're using, can you attach the photos? here are some caresheets in case you would like to take a look at them
good luck!
 

Alyssaacurtis

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England
OK so, i'd switch out the soil for some coco coir (or soil) and orchid bark. the "tortoiselife" bedding seems to have white stones in there.. not sure if it's perlite or just stones but i'd switch is out anyways. View attachment 307885 are you feeding him just spring mix? try to find weeds that haven't been sprayed with pesticides (or grow some yourself). i can't find the pictures of the lights you're using, can you attach the photos? here are some caresheets in case you would like to take a look at them
good luck!

Forgot to attach it? and i have a greenhouse full of food for him normally but i live in England and the weather has just basically killed them all off. And thats all the little scrappy bits in his bowl that he hasn’t eaten. Apparently the white bits are calcium but i’d be a bit worried if he was sifting through dirt for calcium. Thank you
 

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Alyssaacurtis

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Messages
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Location (City and/or State)
England
OK so, i'd switch out the soil for some coco coir (or soil) and orchid bark. the "tortoiselife" bedding seems to have white stones in there.. not sure if it's perlite or just stones but i'd switch is out anyways. View attachment 307885 are you feeding him just spring mix? try to find weeds that haven't been sprayed with pesticides (or grow some yourself). i can't find the pictures of the lights you're using, can you attach the photos? here are some caresheets in case you would like to take a look at them
good luck!

Also where would i find coco coir and orchid bark? Thank you
 

Hamiltondood

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248
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Richmond, Texas
Forgot to attach it? and i have a greenhouse full of food for him normally but i live in England and the weather has just basically killed them all off. And thats all the little scrappy bits in his bowl that he hasn’t eaten. Apparently the white bits are calcium but i’d be a bit worried if he was sifting through dirt for calcium. Thank you
Thank you for providing the bulb, mercury vapor bulbs usually get too hot which dries out the shell. it can also fluctuate too. A simple incandescent flood light would be OK for the basking spot (theyre also cheaper haha). you might want to add a CHE if it's too cold. i'm not sure about the UVB but you can get a uvb tube if you can't get him outside for a few hours a week. the tube and fixtures are a bit pricey though. I definitely would change out the substrate if there are "calcium" bit in it. the cuttlebone should provide enough calcium. you can get the coco coir and bark on amazon or a reptile store. make sure the bark is fine grade so it's not too big.
 

Alyssaacurtis

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Messages
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Location (City and/or State)
England
Thank you for providing the bulb, mercury vapor bulbs usually get too hot which dries out the shell. it can also fluctuate too. A simple incandescent flood light would be OK for the basking spot (theyre also cheaper haha). you might want to add a CHE if it's too cold. i'm not sure about the UVB but you can get a uvb tube if you can't get him outside for a few hours a week. the tube and fixtures are a bit pricey though. I definitely would change out the substrate if there are "calcium" bit in it. the cuttlebone should provide enough calcium. you can get the coco coir and bark on amazon or a reptile store. make sure the bark is fine grade so it's not too big.

okay thank you so much. He tends to go outside when its warm for a few hours every few days but its roughly 12 degrees c here now and theres lots of wild foxes and cats so don’t like to leave him outside unattended for too long. I’ll have a look at the bulb and will definitely be buying the coco coir because i’m paying £7.99 for a 10L bag atm!I’ve never seen himtry to eat the calcium in the soil before
 

KarenSoCal

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I think the biggest problem is that your enclosure is extremely small. These tortoises need lots of space to walk around in order to digest food. The hide area is fine, possibly a bit on the big side, but the open area is just too small.

Hamiltondood is correct re' the MVB. In that small enclosure, your tortoise would be well cooked in no time at all. It also would be impossible to create any kind of temp gradient.

As Hamiltondood said, a plain incandescent flood bulb...flood, not spot...should be used for the basking light. Make sure it is not a "replacement" bulb...They are LED and put out no heat. It must say "incandescent" on the package, and possibly on the bulb itself. Then a T5 HO fluorescent tube type UVB. If you do take him outside frequently in the summer, you don't need indoor UVB. Just turn it on in the winter while it's too cold to go out. It should be on a timer for 3-4 hours daily at midday, like 12-3:00 PM, or 1:00-4:00 PM.

For a better explanation of heating and lighting, read this...

4 elements of heating: By Tom

There are four elements to heating and lighting:

Basking bulb. I use 65 watt floods from the hardware store. I run them on a timer and adjust the height to get the correct basking temp under them. I also like to use a flat rock of some sort directly under the bulb.

Ambient heat maintenance. I use ceramic heating elements or radiant heat panels set on thermostats to maintain ambient above 80 degrees day and night for tropical species. You'd only need day heat for a temperate species like Testudo or DT.

Light. I use LEDs for this purpose. Something in the 5000-6500K color range will look the best. Most bulbs at the store are in the 2500K range and they look yellowish.

UV. If you can get your tortoise outside for an hour 2 or 3 times a week, you won't need indoor UV. If you want it anyway, get one of the newer HO type fluorescent tubes. Which type will depend on mounting height. 5.0 bulbs make almost no UV. You need a meter to check this:

You never know when a tort will suddenly decide to eat something he's never touched in years, like his substrate. Good for you on making the change. You might need to go to a local nursery to get the coco coir and fine grade orchid bark.

BTW, the incandescent basking bulb should go into a ceramic fixture for safety.

If your house stays warmer than 65°F (18°C) at night, you don't need night heat. If your house is colder at night, then get a CHE. You'll want to put it on a thermostat set to 80°F (27°C), and into a ceramic fixture.
 

Alyssaacurtis

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Messages
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Location (City and/or State)
England
I think the biggest problem is that your enclosure is extremely small. These tortoises need lots of space to walk around in order to digest food. The hide area is fine, possibly a bit on the big side, but the open area is just too small.

Hamiltondood is correct re' the MVB. In that small enclosure, your tortoise would be well cooked in no time at all. It also would be impossible to create any kind of temp gradient.

As Hamiltondood said, a plain incandescent flood bulb...flood, not spot...should be used for the basking light. Make sure it is not a "replacement" bulb...They are LED and put out no heat. It must say "incandescent" on the package, and possibly on the bulb itself. Then a T5 HO fluorescent tube type UVB. If you do take him outside frequently in the summer, you don't need indoor UVB. Just turn it on in the winter while it's too cold to go out. It should be on a timer for 3-4 hours daily at midday, like 12-3:00 PM, or 1:00-4:00 PM.

For a better explanation of heating and lighting, read this...

4 elements of heating: By Tom

There are four elements to heating and lighting:

Basking bulb. I use 65 watt floods from the hardware store. I run them on a timer and adjust the height to get the correct basking temp under them. I also like to use a flat rock of some sort directly under the bulb.

Ambient heat maintenance. I use ceramic heating elements or radiant heat panels set on thermostats to maintain ambient above 80 degrees day and night for tropical species. You'd only need day heat for a temperate species like Testudo or DT.

Light. I use LEDs for this purpose. Something in the 5000-6500K color range will look the best. Most bulbs at the store are in the 2500K range and they look yellowish.

UV. If you can get your tortoise outside for an hour 2 or 3 times a week, you won't need indoor UV. If you want it anyway, get one of the newer HO type fluorescent tubes. Which type will depend on mounting height. 5.0 bulbs make almost no UV. You need a meter to check this:

You never know when a tort will suddenly decide to eat something he's never touched in years, like his substrate. Good for you on making the change. You might need to go to a local nursery to get the coco coir and fine grade orchid bark.

BTW, the incandescent basking bulb should go into a ceramic fixture for safety.

If your house stays warmer than 65°F (18°C) at night, you don't need night heat. If your house is colder at night, then get a CHE. You'll want to put it on a thermostat set to 80°F (27°C), and into a ceramic fixture.

thank you for this. Never really understood the difference in lights other than them needing warmth and UV. The enclosure is in my room so it never gets too cold. How long do you reckon i’d get away with the size of the enclosure or should i get a bigger one straight away. Ive had a look on ebay and i’ll probably end up getting it from there. Do you think the bulb fit into the same fixture as i have or would i have to buy a new one? I had noticed in the summer i was having to turn it off for a few hours a day because it was getting way too warm for him but then there was the problem of him sitting in the dark and having no UV
 

KarenSoCal

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You can leave him in there until you get a bigger one set up. You said you'd get it on E-Bay...since you live in England, you will need to bring him inside for the winters. I don't know if you are planning to brumate (hibernate) him. It's really up to you...Horsefields can brumate or not.

I am figuring that you will want to keep him awake and enjoy him over the winter. So nobody has an enclosure for sale that is big enough. The recommended minimum enclosure size is 8ft x 4ft. Most keepers build their own, or have it built. The other issue is that he should be in an enclosed area. He's still growing, so still should have high humidity. That's very difficult, if not impossible, in an open top space.

In any case, if you don't want to have to keep upgrading your enclosure, it makes sense to build one that is the final size he needs. That is 8ft x 4ft, or bigger.

The flood bulb will fit in the same fixture as the MVB. If you use a dome, it might already have a ceramic socket in it.

If you need some ambient lighting, just put an LED light in there. When the basking is off, you'll still be able to see him until bed, when it should be dark.

How long is he? From front edge of carapace, a straight line measurement to back edge of carapace.
 

Alyssaacurtis

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He’s asleep atm but roughly 10cm long. I’ll probably ask my friends dad to build one as he’s a carpenter and builder. Plus it will be a lot cheaper. I’ve read on a few places that horsefield tortoises shouldn’t have too high humidity however baby torts should have a little higher. Also i was told not to hibernate until he’s around 5 years old as it’s dangerous for young torts. He lives inside but goes out for a few hours a few days a week in summer
 

Tom

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He’s asleep atm but roughly 10cm long. I’ll probably ask my friends dad to build one as he’s a carpenter and builder. Plus it will be a lot cheaper. I’ve read on a few places that horsefield tortoises shouldn’t have too high humidity however baby torts should have a little higher. Also i was told not to hibernate until he’s around 5 years old as it’s dangerous for young torts. He lives inside but goes out for a few hours a few days a week in summer
Somebody is giving you old, incorrect, outdated info. Read the care sheet that was linked for the current and correct care info.
 

Alyssaacurtis

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Somebody is giving you old, incorrect, outdated info. Read the care sheet that was linked for the current and correct care info.

believe it was my auntie who has 3 huge outdoor torts who said to wait until he’s 5 i think i might end up hibernating him in a few years but after I’ve weighed up the options and decided what's best for me and him. And okay i’ll pay a bit more attention to the humidity however i’ve just researched it and found out where i like is actually very humid! Tend to read a lot into torts as it helps my baby and I genuinely find it very interesting so i tend to hear a lot of information that contradicts other pieces and never know what to believe!9CA3F48A-BB2A-4FD6-87D0-249A3783E022.jpeg
 

KarenSoCal

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The humidity in your area doesn't have much bearing on an indoor tortoise. In the winter you turn on heat that dries the air, and in summer you turn on AC that dries the air.

We advocate for hatchlings of all species to be in a closed chamber with 80% humidity at all times, day and night, in the entire enclosure. It has been proven that humidity is the # 1 factor in preventing pyramiding. As long as the tortoise is still growing, we want to keep that humidity as high as is practical to keep the new growth smooth.

As far as brumating, in the wild a tortoise baby brumates its very first winter. But we have difficulty providing the same high quality choices available to them in the wild. So most of us don't brumate the first year.

A tortoise has to be in tip-top health to survive brumation. So if a keeper has any doubt about that, he will usually not brumate.

I wouldn't want to wait 5 years to brumate a Desert Tortoise. I've read that it can be a bit difficult to keep them awake when all their instinct is telling them to sleep.

We keepers say we try to recreate the conditions tortoises live in in the wild. For some species, that includes brumating, because that's what they do in the wild. It is a normal natural event for them.

So if you decide to wait 5 years, that's OK. But do it because you choose to, not because someone said you have to. You don't have to wait at all.
 

Alyssaacurtis

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Thank you for this. I definitely won’t be this year but i’ll have a think about it next year. In in the uk so we don’t have ac if its warm its warm and theres nothing we can do about it lol. Any tips on how to control and measure the humidity levels?
 

KarenSoCal

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Thank you for this. I definitely won’t be this year but i’ll have a think about it next year. In in the uk so we don’t have ac if its warm its warm and theres nothing we can do about it lol. Any tips on how to control and measure the humidity levels?

In a closed chamber the humidity is created by wetting the substrate. A pitcher of water is poured in, and it gets all mixed together by hand. It ends up nicely damp, but not soppy wet. This dampness is safe for the tort as long as the temp is maintained high enough. For more humidity, live plants are great, and torts enjoy snuggling under them.

To measure humidity, the instrument is called a hygrometer. Very often, they are built into a therm/hygro combination, which is perfect for us. Like this...
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01H1R0K68/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20

They can also come with probes, so you can put the probes wherever you want, like inside the hide, and the display sits outside the enclosure. Like this...
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00L5J6CUW/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20
 

Alyssaacurtis

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In a closed chamber the humidity is created by wetting the substrate. A pitcher of water is poured in, and it gets all mixed together by hand. It ends up nicely damp, but not soppy wet. This dampness is safe for the tort as long as the temp is maintained high enough. For more humidity, live plants are great, and torts enjoy snuggling under them.

To measure humidity, the instrument is called a hygrometer. Very often, they are built into a therm/hygro combination, which is perfect for us. Like this...
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01H1R0K68/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20

They can also come with probes, so you can put the probes wherever you want, like inside the hide, and the display sits outside the enclosure. Like this...
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00L5J6CUW/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20

thank you so much i’ll have a look and buy one very soon. Is there anyways to raise the humidity without having to buy a new enclosure straight away as its not something i can afford at the moment
 

KarenSoCal

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thank you so much i’ll have a look and buy one very soon. Is there anyways to raise the humidity without having to buy a new enclosure straight away as its not something i can afford at the moment

You don't need to buy another enclosure.

Are you dampening his substrate now? That's the first step. Take out all the decor. Pour a pitcher of water into the substrate, then use your hands to mix the water into it. Let the substrate soak up water. Add more water if needed. When done, it should feel very damp, but should not be soppy or turn into runny mud. It should hold its shape. Make sure you keep your heat up to recommended levels.

Other than that, it's best if you enclose it. I just posted this on another thread, so if you could read it there...
 

Alyssaacurtis

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You don't need to buy another enclosure.

Are you dampening his substrate now? That's the first step. Take out all the decor. Pour a pitcher of water into the substrate, then use your hands to mix the water into it. Let the substrate soak up water. Add more water if needed. When done, it should feel very damp, but should not be soppy or turn into runny mud. It should hold its shape. Make sure you keep your heat up to recommended levels.

Other than that, it's best if you enclose it. I just posted this on another thread, so if you could read it there...

i know this is probably going to make me seem a little stupid but if I don’t ask I won’t know. How would that react with the wooden enclosure? Would i have to look out for damp or rot in the wood, would i put something underneath the dirt to protect the wood or would it not matter? Want to get all the knowledge i can. Also would it work when it starts getting dry to spray water over the top or would that not work?
 

Alyssaacurtis

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i know this is probably going to make me seem a little stupid but if I don’t ask I won’t know. How would that react with the wooden enclosure? Would i have to look out for damp or rot in the wood, would i put something underneath the dirt to protect the wood or would it not matter? Want to get all the knowledge i can. Also would it work when it starts getting dry to spray water over the top or would that not work?

also i love the look of that portable greenhouse and it seems amazing. I’d love to buy one but i’m not sure it that would be best fit for the set up i have as the light is on an upright wooden pannel. I’ve take a photo of it in a second to show you and see what you think
 

shawnateerow

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i know this is probably going to make me seem a little stupid but if I don’t ask I won’t know. How would that react with the wooden enclosure? Would i have to look out for damp or rot in the wood, would i put something underneath the dirt to protect the wood or would it not matter? Want to get all the knowledge i can. Also would it work when it starts getting dry to spray water over the top or would that not work?

I have a wooden tort table. All I did to prevent the rot is put a cheap plastic shower curtain lining the bottom
 

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