Housing Babies Together?

SoCalGreek

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Hi All!
I recently joined a Facebook group related to Greek tortoises (I have one 10 year old Mesopotamian Greek). I thought it would be interesting/fun to see others’ Greeks.

Earlier today, I saw a post regarding two single digit months old Greeks who are housed together and one is growing faster than the other by enough that it’s noticeable. The owner is concerned about why this could be happening (ie is something wrong with the littler one). I responded that they are not social creatures and that they shouldn’t be housed together (as I remember reading that repeatedly on here and have read on here that one could be dominant over the other and eating more than it’s fair share).

Apparently, I’m very wrong and this person’s research shows that torts love being together and prefer to be around each other. I’m relatively new to the tort world and have been wondering if I misread something and responded incorrectly. Can someone please let me know?

For clarification, my tort is my one and only and I have zero plans to get more at any time.
 

ZEROPILOT

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I think you answered your own question.
One is likely growing faster because of dominance.
While no two tortoises grow at the exact same rate. Two kept the same way. The same age should be similar.
Most times very tiny tortoises don't show any aggression. But subtle signs soon start. And some of it looks like they like each other to us humans.
It can become physical damage including death, or emotional, stressful damage. Sometimes also ending in death.
 

Tom

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Hi All!
I recently joined a Facebook group related to Greek tortoises (I have one 10 year old Mesopotamian Greek). I thought it would be interesting/fun to see others’ Greeks.

Earlier today, I saw a post regarding two single digit months old Greeks who are housed together and one is growing faster than the other by enough that it’s noticeable. The owner is concerned about why this could be happening (ie is something wrong with the littler one). I responded that they are not social creatures and that they shouldn’t be housed together (as I remember reading that repeatedly on here and have read on here that one could be dominant over the other and eating more than it’s fair share).

Apparently, I’m very wrong and this person’s research shows that torts love being together and prefer to be around each other. I’m relatively new to the tort world and have been wondering if I misread something and responded incorrectly. Can someone please let me know?

For clarification, my tort is my one and only and I have zero plans to get more at any time.
O. M. G.

I'm usually very patient and keep answering the same questions over and over again, year after year, but I'm getting really sick of this one. It just won't die!

You are correct. The FB group is wrong, and totally off their rocker, as usual. The evidence is right there in front of this person's face and they are going out of their way to look past the obvious evidence and find some other explanation that suits their emotions better.

If you go back there and argue with them in an effort to save that little tortoise's life, they will surely ban you. And now you've seen first hand why we tell people to avoid the FB tortoise groups. Absolute insanity eclipsed only by their stupidity.

Ugh... I give up. For tonight anyway.
 

wellington

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I usually tell those FB people to look on this forum for all the reasons they are wrong. I tell them they don't have to join to read the info. I also tell them that all the research/experiments and current correct info is on this forum and only this forum. Do what you can to get it thru their thick skulls to help save the tortoise cuz it likely will die.
 

ZEROPILOT

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O. M. G.

I'm usually very patient and keep answering the same questions over and over again, year after year, but I'm getting really sick of this one. It just won't die!

You are correct. The FB group is wrong, and totally off their rocker, as usual. The evidence is right there in front of this person's face and they are going out of their way to look past the obvious evidence and find some other explanation that suits their emotions better.

If you go back there and argue with them in an effort to save that little tortoise's life, they will surely ban you. And now you've seen first hand why we tell people to avoid the FB tortoise groups. Absolute insanity eclipsed only by their stupidity.

Ugh... I give up. For tonight anyway.
Leave for a month and rest your brain.
It helped me.
A FB Chameleon group attacked me over some stupid crap when I posted my sick Chameleon.
Over plastic plants.
Veiled Chameleons DO eat plants.
But that one is a Panther. They do not.
 

Tom

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Leave for a month and rest your brain.
It helped me.
A FB Chameleon group attacked me over some stupid crap when I posted my sick Chameleon.
Over plastic plants.
Veiled Chameleons DO eat plants.
But that one is a Panther. They do not.
I went through that one too. My veiled once took a bite of the ficus tree in his cage. Worrying about the toxicity of ficus, I swapped it out for other stuff. Never had that problem with any other cham species.
 

SoCalGreek

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O. M. G.

I'm usually very patient and keep answering the same questions over and over again, year after year, but I'm getting really sick of this one. It just won't die!

You are correct. The FB group is wrong, and totally off their rocker, as usual. The evidence is right there in front of this person's face and they are going out of their way to look past the obvious evidence and find some other explanation that suits their emotions better.

If you go back there and argue with them in an effort to save that little tortoise's life, they will surely ban you. And now you've seen first hand why we tell people to avoid the FB tortoise groups. Absolute insanity eclipsed only by their stupidity.

Ugh... I give up. For tonight anyway.
Thank you for confirming! I’ve been on that fb group for less than a week and am honestly shocked at the number of very, very wrong things people say. I actually think I may just unfollow them. It’s quite frustrating and disappointing to see.
 

Jan A

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Thank you for confirming! I’ve been on that fb group for less than a week and am honestly shocked at the number of very, very wrong things people say. I actually think I may just unfollow them. It’s quite frustrating and disappointing to see.
There are a lot of reasons to ignore FB. Bad tort advice works for me. Welcome to TF where there are great, knowledgeable tort breeders & owners.

GooD luck!!
 

ZEROPILOT

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There are a lot of reasons to ignore FB. Bad tort advice works for me. Welcome to TF where there are great, knowledgeable tort breeders & owners.

GooD luck!!
I don't own this group.
I have no financial interests in it, either.
So when I suggest that this forum is the ONLY resource you need for correct and up to the moment information (plus making some friends along the way) for your tortoise(s), I mean that.
Boy, I wish it was around when I was guessing what to do all those years ago.
I remember reading books that said things like "tortoises get all of their water in their food".
Those FB groups seem to be mostly a collection of outcasts with 1980s info. Or people that thinks that what is easy or convenient for them is fine for the poor animal.
Ignorance is bliss as they say.
 

ZEROPILOT

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I went through that one too. My veiled once took a bite of the ficus tree in his cage. Worrying about the toxicity of ficus, I swapped it out for other stuff. Never had that problem with any other cham species.
I've got Pothos vines in my Veileds cages.
They sure do eat it.
 

Yossarian

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I deleted facebook a few years back, honestly never missed it at all. The two tortoise thing is so common it has started getting me irritated every time I see it. I spend a bit of time on Reddit and every post some days is "look how cute my two baby tortoises are eating [something innapropriate]". . . Any attempts to educate people on reddit gets downvotes almost immediately. To those people, 'research' means seeking out confirmation, and unfortunately there is always confirmation for bullshit on the internet, usually involving facebook.
 

gurgleblaster

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O. M. G.

I'm usually very patient and keep answering the same questions over and over again, year after year, but I'm getting really sick of this one. It just won't die!

You are correct. The FB group is wrong, and totally off their rocker, as usual. The evidence is right there in front of this person's face and they are going out of their way to look past the obvious evidence and find some other explanation that suits their emotions better.

If you go back there and argue with them in an effort to save that little tortoise's life, they will surely ban you. And now you've seen first hand why we tell people to avoid the FB tortoise groups. Absolute insanity eclipsed only by their stupidity.

Ugh... I give up. For tonight anyway.
Tom don't give up. You have helped me immensely with your posts. I feel like being on this forum a lot of us are going to make mistakes but we are here because we love our animals and our passion for good husbandry. Keep fighting the good fight. There will always be hard headed people but those who truly care about good husbandry are often more than willing to listen and correct said mistakes.
 

Tom

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Tom don't give up. You have helped me immensely with your posts. I feel like being on this forum a lot of us are going to make mistakes but we are here because we love our animals and our passion for good husbandry. Keep fighting the good fight. There will always be hard headed people but those who truly care about good husbandry are often more than willing to listen and correct said mistakes.
Thank you.
 

Tom

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I deleted facebook a few years back, honestly never missed it at all. The two tortoise thing is so common it has started getting me irritated every time I see it. I spend a bit of time on Reddit and every post some days is "look how cute my two baby tortoises are eating [something innapropriate]". . . Any attempts to educate people on reddit gets downvotes almost immediately. To those people, 'research' means seeking out confirmation, and unfortunately there is always confirmation for bullshit on the internet, usually involving facebook.
So true. The people who are looking to be told what they want to hear are the ones who leave in a huff. I usually get a thank you from the ones that are truly looking to learn new and better info, even when they are understandably skeptical at first due to all the conflicting info out there.
 

Mrs.Jennifer

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So true. The people who are looking to be told what they want to hear are the ones who leave in a huff. I usually get a thank you from the ones that are truly looking to learn new and better info, even when they are understandably skeptical at first due to all the conflicting info out there.
In my family we have a term for people who ask a question only because they want affirmation for their decision/belief that is wrong. We call them "askholes."
 

Tom

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In my family we have a term for people who ask a question only because they want affirmation for their decision/belief that is wrong. We call them "askholes."
Mrs. Jennifer? In the most platonic way possible: I LOVE you man!
 

casstom702

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No, it's not true that you can't keep tortoises in pairs or groups.
Source: Michael Tuma, PhD

Here's the thing though: it's safer if they grow up together, you need a LOT more room (in my experience, two torts need at least four times the amount of space as one tort), torts have personalities, and often these personalities clash (for example, tort A and tort B may get along great, tort B and tort C may also get along great, put the three of them together and they may get along great... or try to kill each other). The reason why everyone is always so against keeping them in pairs and groups is 1) because they can live alone just fine, 2) need enough space that they can have separate "territories" and aren't forced to socialize constantly because of lack of living space, 3) it's a crapshoot whether or not two torts will be friendly or constantly attack each other, oh and 4) torts that seem like the best of buddies may start hurting each other during mating season. I have a large property and eight torts. Two always live alone, two always live together, and the other four consist of three females and a male. The females live together most of the time and I pair them with the male one at a time during mating season. And before any of them lived together, they'd have a month or two of supervised visits so I felt confidant that they got along. It's a lot of work and entirely unnecessary if you have the facilities to house them separately.

You'll learn that torts are very complex creatures; therefore, there are rarely absolutes in regard to their care and husbandry (besides things like absolutely never throw your tort in your swimming pool nor feed them only iceberg lettuce, let's not be smart @$$es now).
 

casstom702

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In my family we have a term for people who ask a question only because they want affirmation for their decision/belief that is wrong. We call them "askholes."
What does your family call people who have formed an opinion and then refuse to listen to, consider, or contemplate any alternative views, contradicting theories, or dissenting research?
 
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