Hot rock with rheostat

[gustaf]

I know that most people recommend to stay away from hot rocks. They get to hot. So here is what I did...
I have a hot rock I've had for a few years and never used. I plugged it in and checked it with infrared thermometer every few hours for a day and a half or so. And yep it got to hot. I believe the packaging says it stays somewhere between 95° and 105°. Maybe it says 110° max. I don't remember exactly. Well it got to over 130° Ferenheit! Ouch that could cook a hatchling tort!
So I went to home depot and bought a rheostat (dimmer) and connected the hot rock to it. That did the trick. It works great. The dimmer is a slide switch. You can increase and decrease the temp by sliding the switch up or down. I wanted my hot rock to stay at 95°. With a little experimentation I found the sweet spot. I put a mark on the dimmer switch so I don't lose the setting that keeps it at 95°. I'm sure this will work with other heat sources such as heat mats and under tank heaters and such. I know many people have already done this but I wanted to share my experience with you all in case some of you do not have knowledge of this yet.

Which leads me to my next topic.

I have some sulcata babies that are hatching now. Instead of using heat lamps or CHE's for a basking site I'm gonna just use the hot rock. My enclosure is climate controlled very well. It is a closed system controlled by a thermostat Which keeps the ambient temp about 86, which I can adjust up or down if need be. It is a humid enclosure and I use a reptisun UV fluorescent tube. So it's basically like everybody else's closed system but I'm using the rheostat controlled hot Rock instead of a heat lamp for basking. It will still be a warm place for the tort to lay on to aid in digestion of food. But I'm also wondering if it might possibly reduce chances of pyramidding since there won't be that hot light constantly bearing down with a drying effect on the shell.
Tom are you already experimenting with something similar to this with some of your torts? It seems like I was reading a post awhile back and your were discussing it.

 

[gustaf]

Here is a pic of the dimmer. It's nice because there is no wiring to do. The hot rock plugs into the dimmer Wich plugs into the recepticle. It's that easy

 

[Yvonne G]

Seems to me I remember from my dim and very distant past, that you're not supposed to plug a hot rock into any sort of controller.

 

[wellington]

Also, tortoises sun themselves from above. That's why most will put a regular rock under a heat source so the tort can warm up from top and yet, the rock will be warm to help warm from the bottom. With this idea, and your rock, the rock would never come on and heat on its own.
I too remember them not recommed to be used with anything. Also, the fact that so many of them, at least in the past, fails and ends up burning up, not just shutting off.
It's risky I think.

 

[Len B]

I have been using the lamp dimmers for several years on heat mats, CHE's, incandescent bulbs, and my homemade heated ceramic tiles without any failures, burnouts, or burn ups. These lamp dimmers do the same thing as the F911 that stanfield sells for use with their mats or any other rheostat. If I need a grounded 3 wire system instead of the polarized 2 wire I use the the wall mounted dimmer switch with a ground wire. If used correctly under ground or bottom heat is very benificial to maintaining proper temps and moisture in a closed type enclosure, You can also place heat pads on side walls or above to eliminate needing a hot che or incandescent bulb bearing down on them by using a more gentle heat source.

 

[gustaf]

Wellington I'm not sure what you mean by "the rock won't turn on and heat on it's own". It does great on the rheostat. The rheostat limits the current flow to prevent overheating. I've tested it and it works. Whether it is a heat mat, hot rock, ceramic heater, etc. The concept is the same. They are all just heating elements at their core.

 

[gustaf]

I have been using the lamp dimmers for several years on heat mats, CHE's, incandescent bulbs, and my homemade heated ceramic tiles without any failures, burnouts, or burn ups. These lamp dimmers do the same thing as the F911 that stanfield sells for use with their mats or any other rheostat. If I need a grounded 3 wire system instead of the polarized 2 wire I use the the wall mounted dimmer switch with a ground wire. If used correctly under ground or bottom heat is very benificial to maintaining proper temps and moisture in a closed type enclosure, You can also place heat pads on side walls or above to eliminate needing a hot che or incandescent bulb bearing down on them by using a more gentle heat source.

So I'm not the only one who has done this.

 

[gustaf]

Also, tortoises sun themselves from above. That's why most will put a regular rock under a heat source so the tort can warm up from top and yet, the rock will be warm to help warm from the bottom. With this idea, and your rock, the rock would never come on and heat on its own.
I too remember them not recommed to be used with anything. Also, the fact that so many of them, at least in the past, fails and ends up burning up, not just shutting off.
It's risky I think.

Wellington now I think I know what you meant. I think you mean that in nature the rock won't heat itself. That's where the sun comes in. I understand that. Just hear me out on this. I know that the sun is important for vitaman D production and also heat. When we make an indoor artificial habitat we obviously do our best to mimic their natural wild environment to make them happy and healthy. We use the uvb lights and incondescent heat lamps and that technology has definately helped us a lot with tort husbandry. But we all agree that none of that is as good as the real deal (the sun).
I know pyramiding is very rare in wild torts and very common in captive torts. And the closed system technique of keeping the humidity high and the temps warm has worked great. But I'm not sold on the incondescent heat lamps. I don't think it's necesarily that important for the heat to come from above. We know that the temp has to be at least 80° for digestion to be able to take place. Preferably higher. That's why we have the warm spot/cool spot area. So the tort can regulate by moving in out out of the different temp zones. With the use of the uvb tube. The hatchlings will get there uv rays and a little warmth from it as well. And from the heat source below it will get it's warm spot it can lay on to help it digest it's food. I would argue that you can raise a healthy hatchling without a heat lamp. And you don't have to worry about a heat lamp drying out the caratin in his shell causing pyramiding. I wonder if the incondescent heat lamp being removed would allow there to be slightly less humidity in the enclosure without causing pyramiding. (Just a hypothesis here)

I actually have 2 heat sources plus the uvb bulb. I have a forced air heater on a thermostat to control the ambient air and the hot rock controlled by a rheostat for the hotspot. The rheostat makes sure it doesn't overheat.
My enclosure keeps temps so stable that it could be used as an incubator.
Since it is covered it is easy to maintain the humidity at 80%.
I know I'm not a science expert. I just think a lot about this stuff. I will keep you guys updated time to time on my exploits and time will tell how well this works. I have learned a ton of good info from you all at this tortoise forum and I welcome and appreciate your input, opinions, and knowledge.

 

[wellington]

I get what your saying. Hope it works. I just don't like those heated rocks, and had to give the warning.

Something I remembered. Not sure who said it. Possibly @Tom. Something to consider and watch out for. That a tortoise sitting on a heated rock will have to warm itself longer and possibly burn itself, because only the bottom will be getting warm.
Again, I don't remember who said it and if I have it totally correct. Maybe Tom can confirm. Anyway, keep an eye out for someone basking too long on it and keep us updated and good luck with it.

 

[Tom]

The main problem with hot rocks is not that they get too hot (they do as your temp gun demonstrated…), the problem is that they are cheaply made and the elements inside some how go haywire and fry themselves. When I was a kid we used these for my box turtle on our vets recommendation and about every six months or so we would smell that familiar smoldering smell and sure enough another hot rock had burned up. I have no idea how this never injured my turtle. Dumb luck I suppose.

I like your theory and would love to see the results, but I have to recommend against using the hot rock. I did something similar with a Kane heat mat back in 2011 and it was working fine until an unexpected disease outbreak shut down my entire reptile room for two years.

Half the pics are gone, but you can see the thread here:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/humid-hatchling-chamber.27211/
Scroll down for the updates.

 

[Len B]

I raised Alex this way, She hatched in May of 2012. Never had a hot incandescent light bulb or CHE above, She had bottom heat, side heat, and the heat from above was generated by golden rods at night, She spent her days outside in mostly tall wet grass and weeds. She had a shallow water bowl that she would pass through while wandering around outside. High humidity but no water bowl inside at night, constant ground temps as close to 85 as possible at all times throughout the enclosure when inside. Put her outside as the sun hit the enclosure the air and ground temps were lower than the 85 she was coming from but she had the sun to start regulating her body temps as normal. Her diet was and still is as varied as I can do with both mazuris as backup. I think she is turning out fine for an east coaster. Pic taken today. She is 39 months old about 18 inches and over 30 pounds and not bashful at all.

 

[wellington]

Great looking tort. It looks like it's a great way to raise one. However, I wonder, do you think it would still be good if you couldn't get your tort outside on most days to sun itself. Also, I'm more worried about the heat rock. They are as Tom said, cheaply made. I heard bad things about them before even joining this forum.
I think a better way would be to use plan rocks on the floor and the pig blankets and/or radiant heat panels on sides. Do you have a pic of your set up? That would be great to see.

 

[gustaf]

The main problem with hot rocks is not that they get too hot (they do as your temp gun demonstrated…), the problem is that they are cheaply made and the elements inside some how go haywire and fry themselves. When I was a kid we used these for my box turtle on our vets recommendation and about every six months or so we would smell that familiar smoldering smell and sure enough another hot rock had burned up. I have no idea how this never injured my turtle. Dumb luck I suppose.

I like your theory and would love to see the results, but I have to recommend against using the hot rock. I did something similar with a Kane heat mat back in 2011 and it was working fine until an unexpected disease outbreak shut down my entire reptile room for two years.

Half the pics are gone, but you can see the thread here:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/humid-hatchling-chamber.27211/
Scroll down for the updates.

Sorry to here about the crazy disease outbreak Tom.

I'm happy to hear you've had success with that technique.

It's disappointing to hear about the hot rock issue. So far mine is staying at a stable 95 but the warnings from you all has me afraid to trust it. I will keep a close eye on it. I realize there are probably better choices out there like heat mats and heat panels but I had the hot rock so I figured I could make it safer by using it with a rheostat. I will look at other options.

 

[gustaf]

I raised Alex this way, She hatched in May of 2012. Never had a hot incandescent light bulb or CHE above, She had bottom heat, side heat, and the heat from above was generated by golden rods at night, She spent her days outside in mostly tall wet grass and weeds. She had a shallow water bowl that she would pass through while wandering around outside. High humidity but no water bowl inside at night, constant ground temps as close to 85 as possible at all times throughout the enclosure when inside. Put her outside as the sun hit the enclosure the air and ground temps were lower than the 85 she was coming from but she had the sun to start regulating her body temps as normal. Her diet was and still is as varied as I can do with both mazuris as backup. I think she is turning out fine for an east coaster. Pic taken today.View attachment 144834 She is 39 months old about 18 inches and over 30 pounds and not bashful at all.

Beautiful sulcata girl and big for her age too. Thanks for sharing the pic and your husbandry techniques with me.

 

[gustaf]

I will send a pic of my setup in tomorrow

 

[Tom]

... so I figured I could make it safer by using it with a rheostat.

The rheostat solves the overheating issue, but it doesn't solve the infamous hot rock spontaneous combustion issue.

I hope you find something else before your hot rock does its thing and burns your tortoises.

 

[Anyfoot]

I know that most people recommend to stay away from hot rocks. They get to hot. So here is what I did...
I have a hot rock I've had for a few years and never used. I plugged it in and checked it with infrared thermometer every few hours for a day and a half or so. And yep it got to hot. I believe the packaging says it stays somewhere between 95° and 105°. Maybe it says 110° max. I don't remember exactly. Well it got to over 130° Ferenheit! Ouch that could cook a hatchling tort!
So I went to home depot and bought a rheostat (dimmer) and connected the hot rock to it. That did the trick. It works great. The dimmer is a slide switch. You can increase and decrease the temp by sliding the switch up or down. I wanted my hot rock to stay at 95°. With a little experimentation I found the sweet spot. I put a mark on the dimmer switch so I don't lose the setting that keeps it at 95°. I'm sure this will work with other heat sources such as heat mats and under tank heaters and such. I know many people have already done this but I wanted to share my experience with you all in case some of you do not have knowledge of this yet.

Which leads me to my next topic.

I have some sulcata babies that are hatching now. Instead of using heat lamps or CHE's for a basking site I'm gonna just use the hot rock. My enclosure is climate controlled very well. It is a closed system controlled by a thermostat Which keeps the ambient temp about 86, which I can adjust up or down if need be. It is a humid enclosure and I use a reptisun UV fluorescent tube. So it's basically like everybody else's closed system but I'm using the rheostat controlled hot Rock instead of a heat lamp for basking. It will still be a warm place for the tort to lay on to aid in digestion of food. But I'm also wondering if it might possibly reduce chances of pyramidding since there won't be that hot light constantly bearing down with a drying effect on the shell.
Tom are you already experimenting with something similar to this with some of your torts? It seems like I was reading a post awhile back and your were discussing it.

I like your theory, but maybe not something hot on the ground, Also I hope there's never a malfunction with the dimmer switch,this is your safety net.
Anyway, this is something I think of a lot, our torts go under a heat bulb, get heat spots and encourage uneven growth.@glitch4200 has proven this to me.
I've often wondered if MVB promote uneven growth even more, because we are encouraging the tort to sit under a hot bulb to control its D3 intake
You mentioned you had some baby sullies hatching, I'm not in the privileged position to have any neonates yet, so I can't conduct any experiments
Could you set up 2 identical enclosures with the heat source of your choice(lets say CHE). But in one enclosure quite simply have a barrier on the floor around the hot spot so they can not sit directly under the CHE. So basically you could have lets say a 6" diameter no go zone under the CHE.
Treat them exactly the same in every other way.

 

[johnsonnboswell]

My experience with heat rocks: I had two rocks; one worked fine. The other worked fine for so long that I stopped checking it every day. It destroyed the connective tissue on my box turtle's plastron.

 

[gustaf]

I'm finally showing some pics of the hatchling enclosure.

 

[gustaf]

I use a mini hair dryer as a forced air heater to maintain the ambient temp. You can see how its mounted from the topside and underside of the foam lid. I have it encapsulated in foam rubber to cut down on vibration. When I first stuck it through just the foam board without the foam rubber it made an obnoxious loud vibrating sound. At first I had the intake side of the hairdryer on the outside thinking it would be a good idea to bring in fresh air. But I changed it so the intake was inside because I had a harder time maintaining humidity because it was bringing in so much dry air and pushing out the moist air.

My digital thermostat is just a cheap St1000 Chinese Internet special but it works great. I have one on my homeade incubator and I was so happy with it I bought one for this hatchling brooder box/enclosure as well. It takes a little wiring knowledge to hook it up properly.