Horray New Growth! Still Pyramiding?

[Kayti]

Alrighty, so awhile ago I posted a thread about my Russians, both of which were pretty obviously pyramiding. They had been fed nothing but greens their entire lives, so the consensus was that they did not have enough humidity. (Despite frequently misting their coco husk substrate- whoever says Russians are easy babies needs to think again.) Since then, I have experimented with cypress and sphagnum. Right now, they are living in 100% sphagnum, which is kept moist constantly, and rotated frequently to avoid mold. I removed their dry hides because they never went into the moist hides- I guess they just weren't used to it. Now, they sleep in their moist hides every night.
There has been some noticeable new growth in their shells, but it's difficult to gauge if this is healthy new growth, or a continuation of the pyramiding. So, I'm opening it up for another consensus! Yes, I am inviting you to criticize my pyramiding. Please be brutal, rude, and entirely un-called for.

Here's Mona:
Old Pictures from 11/21/09:

Today:

And Ed:
Old Picture from 11/21/09:

Today

---

And Delaware -my anti-sulcata (lol) poster child
When I brought her home:

Today:

Thanks for looking, tell me what you think!

 

[Rhyno47]

I have to see what your sulcata's enclosure looks like!

 

[Meg90]

Kayti, you are doing a GREAT job! They all (especially your sully, so CONGRATS) are growing nice and smooth now.

 

[Kristina]

WOW what an improvement! That sully looks absolutely beautiful, good job!

Kristina

 

[ChiKat]

The growth looks great to me! And Delaware is gorgeous too!

I have to admit that I haven't kept Nelson's substrate very moist, and he is growing pretty smoothly. There has to be another factor other than humidity, IMO.

 

[chadk]

Russians are pretty hardy and don't pyramid as easily as stars and sullies. But don't push it! Why don't you try to keep it moist? If that is what most folks suggest so Nelson is healthy, why not do it??

 

[Kayti]

Oh my gosh, stop saying Russians are hardy! I did everything right except for having enough humidity, and look at how bad Mona got.
However, I definitely agree with you ChiKat, there is way more to it than moisture- possibly even individual differences between tortoises. Mona and Ed have way different growth, and they lived in the same enclosure for almost their entire lives.
If you're getting smooth growth, why change?

Thanks for all the nice words guys! I'll keep ya updated.

 

[terryo]

Kayti...big turn-about. They are looking great now. Good job!

 

[Tom]

Your Russian looks healthy and you are giving it all the right stuff. I've learned from Daisy, my sulcata, and from talking to several other prominent tortoise keepers that once pyramiding starts, its very hard to stop. Its a growth pattern that starts in the first few weeks or months. Don't be discouraged by this. Just keep doing the right thing.

Your sulcata looks great. You really ought to share with us what you are doing with Delaware. Substrate, diet, temps, humidity, etc... Are you in Eastern Oregon, the drier part? Maintaining humidity and moisture in a dry house can be very difficult in some circumstances. In some house holds, it seems to be no problem. It has always been VERY difficult for me.

 

[ChiKat]

Russians are pretty hardy and don't pyramid as easily as stars and sullies. But don't push it! Why don't you try to keep it moist? If that is what most folks suggest so Nelson is healthy, why not do it??

Oh don't get me wrong, I do keep him on moist substrate. I just let it dry out occasionally and it's not constantly wet, like some people here deem necessary. I pour water on it and mix it up about once a week or so.

Mona and Ed have way different growth, and they lived in the same enclosure for almost their entire lives.

That is very interesting!!

 

[Kayti]

I'll get a picture of everyone's new setup, but I'm re-sealing it this weekend so they're spending the day outside. (First HOT day of the year, woot!)

I was getting them all settled in their outdoor enclosures when my landlord's friend's daughter came down to visit- her name is Loo Loo and she's like 6 or so. She got to hold everyone (except Ed the grumpus) and has proclaimed Tortoises to be her new favorite animal! Score 1 for our team.

Also, I guess it's worth mentioning that I am feeding everyone almost entirely Mazuri now, moistened into a pile daily. But I don't know if it's that or the humidity that has kept Delaware so smooth, because I had her eating strictly greens just a few months ago.
Delaware is also only gaining an average of 20 grams a month, which I thought was kind of low for a Sulcata? She eats like a bottomless pit though. If she weren't so active and happy all the time I'd think it had something to do with her crappy start in life.

 

[ChiKat]

Can't wait to see the new setup! I'm always looking for new ideas for Nelson's enclosure

 

[Stephanie Logan]

They are all beautiful, Kayti, and that last photo of Delaware really captures her delicate and inquisitive face!

What a charming little "herd" you are developing.

 

[dreadyA]

Russians are hardy.

 

[Kayti]

Russians are hardy.

Twerp.

 

[Kayti]

Yay pictures! Repainting took way longer that I thought it would. But I really like the look of the Drylock, and I never trusted the tiles not to leak between the seams. Plus, they looked like a vet's office.
All the white sort of gives it the aesthetics of an asylum of some kind, but I think it will look better once I move all their wood and rock furniture back in.
Here's what they look like, with the bare basics, (minus the feeding tiles that were soaking in the sink):

Mona:

Ed:

And Delaware: (the mazuri is soaking under her light)

Her favorite napping spot:

I think the tight fit makes her feel more comfortable, and probably helps with humidity too. She never goes into her log hide, but I'm hoping she'll grow into it.

Obviously, everyone's 'room' isn't going to last much longer size-wise. I wasn't really prepared to have to separate Mona and Ed. But they all have outdoor bins too, and hopefully they'll be spending the majority of the summer out in the sunshine.

Every 4 days or so I take out all the sphagnum, soak it, and rotate the damp stuff in the hides to under the lamps so it dries out. It's pretty labor-intensive, but I've got a routine down so it only takes about 3 minutes per tort. I think it's worth it, because it actually stays damp.

 

[Maggie Cummings]

I have that same cave that you say is Deleware's favorite napping spot and that is also a favorite choice spot for my smaller torts.
I personally wouldn't be so worried about pyramiding as I would the overall shape of your Russians shell. The shape is too tall. I would feed less, stop feeding all Mazuri. I feed Mazuri 3 times a week. I just don't think it's a natural diet. I've never seen a tortoise run down a container of Mazuri, get it open and soak some pellets in warm water. By the time they did all that they would be too tired to eat.
Feed less Mazuri...3 times a week. the rest of their diet should be greens and keep the substrate more damp. That's my opinion.
I am not sure I have ever seen a keeper try so hard to raise nice looking tortoises. You should be commended on trying so hard...good job!!!

 

[Kayti]

Thanks! My pets are like my third job

I've never seen a tortoise run down a container of Mazuri, get it open and soak some pellets in warm water.

I've never seen a tortoise go to Albertsons and pick up some produce either!
I think it's difficult to judge husbandry based on "naturalness" because really, nothing is natural when you take an animal out of its environment and attempt to construct a substitute.
It's like keeping Sulcatas on sand- sure, it's natural (I guess), but it doesn't accurately mimic every micro-climate they need to be healthy. I think the produce I was feeding possibly didn't have the right balance of calcium, phosphorous, fiber, or diversity, or whatever. So while it looked more natural, it wasn't.

I don't know, these are just my thoughts as of now. I'm just going to continue my new/current plan as long as the seem happy and healthy.