Homeschooling - long read... lots of pics...

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Shelly

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dmmj said:
honestly when a teacxher has an "election" for president for six year olds, that teacher has an agenda and should be fire IMHO. Home schooled kids when taught a well rounded education IMHO come out smarter and better people in the future. I see my cousins and the school they are in and it makes me sad and angry at the same time, because they are notbbeing taught anything except how to use condoms and how to have babies.

You should heed your own signature.
 

chadk

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Shelly said:
dmmj said:
honestly when a teacxher has an "election" for president for six year olds, that teacher has an agenda and should be fire IMHO. Home schooled kids when taught a well rounded education IMHO come out smarter and better people in the future. I see my cousins and the school they are in and it makes me sad and angry at the same time, because they are notbbeing taught anything except how to use condoms and how to have babies.

You should heed your own signature.

Shelly, please take your issues offline in a PM with him. Please don't turn my post into name calling.
 
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Maggie Cummings

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Thank you Chad...she is beautiful...guess no pic of you then...alright I can accept that....
Chad I think the 30 minute window starts after you hit send and then want to come back and correct any typos,

after you finish typing your post go around and correct your spelling and any typos then hit post...THEN is when your 30 minute window for correction starts. At least I think that's what happens it's different for moderators.
 

-ryan-

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The problem with homeschooling is regulation. Clearly you are doing a great job homeschooling your kids, and that is commendable, but the vast majority of home schooling parents don't have any idea what they are doing. This is a big problem, and I am sick of hearing "We deserve the right to teach our children the way we see fit." WRONG... no... DEAD WRONG. It's not about the parents, it's about the kids, and the kids deserve the right of a comprehensive education taught by people who are experts in their field. Do I feel that this is happening in all public schools? No! Should it be? YES!

I feel that we live in a world where, for the majority of people, homeschooling is no longer relevant. Obviously there are exceptions, and it appears as though your family is an exception, but there are still problems. For example, what about high school? Will you be able to offer your children an education in Calculus? What about Physics? Advanced Studio Art? Advanced Music Theory? These are just example of classes that really can be taught by no less than an expert in each given field. EDIT: Rereading your post I see you somewhat addressed these concerns, but again it is a national thing and many areas don't offer the opportunities that you have available.

Another problem is that we are now in at a point in time when many middle school children are more intelligent than the parents. Where do you think these kids will end up if their parents are the ones educating them?

Not trying to debate anything, but just some food for thought. Again, from your pictures it appears as though you are doing a wonderful job.
 

chadk

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-ryan- said:
The problem with homeschooling is regulation. Clearly you are doing a great job homeschooling your kids, and that is commendable, but the vast majority of home schooling parents don't have any idea what they are doing. This is a big problem, and I am sick of hearing "We deserve the right to teach our children the way we see fit." WRONG... no... DEAD WRONG. It's not about the parents, it's about the kids, and the kids deserve the right of a comprehensive education taught by people who are experts in their field. Do I feel that this is happening in all public schools? No! Should it be? YES!

I feel that we live in a world where, for the majority of people, homeschooling is no longer relevant. Obviously there are exceptions, and it appears as though your family is an exception, but there are still problems. For example, what about high school? Will you be able to offer your children an education in Calculus? What about Physics? Advanced Studio Art? Advanced Music Theory? These are just example of classes that really can be taught by no less than an expert in each given field. EDIT: Rereading your post I see you somewhat addressed these concerns, but again it is a national thing and many areas don't offer the opportunities that you have available.

Another problem is that we are now in at a point in time when many middle school children are more intelligent than the parents. Where do you think these kids will end up if their parents are the ones educating them?

Not trying to debate anything, but just some food for thought. Again, from your pictures it appears as though you are doing a wonderful job.

I think you'd be surpised at how many good homeschooling families are out there. The horror stories are the rare exception. And yes, there are some who start out and find it too hard an fail. But in this day and age, the resources are overwhelming.

What if a child is raised on the family farm to be a farmer. Or to be a wood worker or carpenter? Mechanic or running the family business? Is that a parents right? If parents are able to edecuate their kids on par with public schools or better, why shouldn't it be their right to do so?

Look as the data around homeschooling families. Most are middle class or higher with one parent able to stay at home (usually the mother). One or more parent had a college education in most of those families. The kids test higher and are more involved in their communities.

Parents should have the ultimate decision in the children's lives. And that inlcudes choices when it comes to how they should be educated. As long as they are not being abused, the gov't should back off and focus on the core things that they are supposed to...(aka refer to the constituion).

A few stats - since 1999 (internet took off), homeschooling has increased over 75% to roughly 2 million in the US alone.

Where I work (large NW software company), there are hundreds of homeschool families alone. And it is growing more and more each year as public schools continue to struggle and private schools continue to get more expensive.





Maggie - just for you. Found one from my birthday back in October. I'm doing my best to act like I like the new hat someone got me...
4798_111161905745_675900745_2806676_5399910_n.jpg
 

DoctorCosmonaut

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I don't think the average parent has the time (either they are both working or are a single parent) or the resources ($$$) to home-school, no matter how great or wrong it can go, it just couldn't work on a large scale.
 

terryo

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"Parents should have the ultimate decision in the children's lives. And that inlcudes choices when it comes to how they should be educated. As long as they are not being abused, the gov't should back off and focus on the core things that they are supposed to...(aka refer to the constituion)."

IMO...absolutely true.

"Another problem is that we are now in at a point in time when many middle school children are more intelligent than the parents. Where do you think these kids will end up if their parents are the ones educating them?"

I was never able to go on to a higher education, and this is the only reason I wouldn't home school my children, but I sat with them every night, while they did their homework, and what I didn't understand, they taught me. They enjoyed that so much! I think most people realize their capabilities.
Most of the people I know who home school, are financially secure enough that only one parent has to work, and both have gone to college and grad school.
 

DoctorCosmonaut

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"Most of the people I know who home school, are financially secure enough that only one parent has to work, and both have gone to college and grad school."

It's a privilege in many senses. Money aside, most parents don't have the rounded knowledge or skills to teach math, geography, or whatever it may be. That is why I'm against taking funding away from education for those who can't afford it (tax breaks or money slips or whatever was proposed). Schools scrape by as it is financially, and a country would go down the drain if everyone wasn't as educated as that society can afford.

But, good for you Chad, its great that you can provide all that :)
 

chadk

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DoctorCosmonaut said:
I don't think the average parent has the time (either they are both working or are a single parent) or the resources ($$$) to home-school, no matter how great or wrong it can go, it just couldn't work on a large scale.

Nobody is suggesting that this replace all other forms of education. Just allowed to exist as a valid option for those willing and able to do it.

As for the $$$ aspect, i know plenty of lower-middle class, low income, single income, and even some single parent homeschoolers. It is more a matter of determination than anything else.

DoctorCosmonaut said:
It's a privilege in many senses. Money aside, most parents don't have the rounded knowledge or skills to teach math, geography, or whatever it may be. That is why I'm against taking funding away from education for those who can't afford it (tax breaks or money slips or whatever was proposed). Schools scrape by as it is financially, and a country would go down the drain if everyone wasn't as educated as that society can afford.

But, good for you Chad, its great that you can provide all that :)



I know many homeschool families that love learning together. They take field trips together to study American history for example, and learn about things side by side with their kids. Parents are able to focus and have 'self learning' skills that can be taught over time to their children. Learning and teaching side by side is a very valid approach. And with the resources around today, there is no topic you can't learn if you REALLY want.

My first year at the university, my Calculus prof was from india. A tiny little old man who spoke such broken english it was nearly impossible for me to follow along a normal conversation, let alone a complidated mathmatical lesson... And no 1:1 time to slow down and cover areas and concpets I was struggling with. The man was clearly a math genious ,but was a horrible teacher. Knowlege of a subject does not make a good teacher. Willingness to learn, deep interest in your student, creativity, resourcefullness, deterimination, flexibility, a love for learning and for teaching others, these are characteristics that make anyone able to teach just about any subject.



There is a recent case going on between the US and Germany. Over the years, Germany has been cracking down on homeschooling. It reached the point where most families had to give it up. In fact, anyone caught homeschooling faced fines, jail, and losing their children.

They reached out the US and have now been granted asylum because here in the US, we (most of us) still value pareantal rights and basic human rights.

http://homeschooling.suite101.com/article.cfm/german-homeschooling-family-granted-asylum


The political asylum case of the Romeike family was detailed in the article German Homeschooling Family Seeks Asylum in U.S.

On January 26, 2010 immigration Judge Lawrence O. Burman granted the political asylum application of the Romeike family, German homeschoolers fleeing persecution in their country. The Homeschool Legal Defense Association (HSLDA) reports the judge said that "We can't expect every country to follow our Constitution... However, the rights being violated here are basic human rights that no country has a right to violate.”



Read more at Suite101: German Homeschooling Family Granted Asylum: Romeike Family Allowed to Stay in the United States http://homeschooling.suite101.com/a...schooling-family-granted-asylum#ixzz0f9erNPRm


Ruling has International Implications
In a ruling in which he called the German Government's persecution of the Romeike's "odd" and "just plain silly", HSLDA reports that judge Burman added, “Homeschoolers are a particular social group that the German government is trying to suppress. This family has a well-founded fear of persecution…therefore, they are eligible for asylum…and the court will grant asylum.”

There are hundreds of homeschooling families still living in Germany. If Germany continues its persecution of homeschooling, these families may also flee to the United States and petition for political asylum as the Romeike's did.

HSLDA Says Ruling Embarrassing for Germany
Mike Donnelly, director of international relations for HSLDA said in a statement on the HSLDA website, “It is embarrassing for Germany, since a Western nation should uphold basic human rights, which include allowing parents to raise and educate their own children. This judge understood the case perfectly, and he called Germany out. We hope this decision will cause Germany to stop persecuting homeschoolers." He notes that “This decision finally recognizes that German homeschoolers are a specific social group that is being persecuted by a Western democracy.”
 

TylerStewart

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DoctorCosmonaut said:
Schools scrape by as it is financially, and a country would go down the drain if everyone wasn't as educated as that society can afford.

They scrape by because they're government run. The money that the schools get per student is much higher than it would take to send the kid to a private school. If schools were run by individuals, private sector, there would be little or no waste. The govt doesn't do anything without a lot of waste.

I don't suggest that everyone should be home-schooling, just that they shouldn't be taxed on supporting the public schools if they weren't sending kids there. I don't think it's fair that Chad, for example, is paying taxes to send other people's kids to school when he is also paying to educate his own by himself.

EDIT: Just found a link in a simple Google search. There's lots of links out there. We're pushing nearly $10K per year per student. That would pay for a nice private education, wouldn't you say?

http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=66
 

alfiethetortoise

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I find this thread very interesting. I have to agree with Jordan though, that for many people home schooling is just not an option....

Chad- i am sure your children (all seven of them, yikes!) are recieving a top rate home school education. The pictures pretty much prove that. But i have no 'choice' but to send my daughter to school, when the time comes. As a single parent, i cannot afford not to be working, and staying at home with her every day instead. Also, your 7 children have eachother everyday at home school. My one very sociable child, would be stuck with just me. I have doubts on what this would do to her socail skills, especially as she is already very sociable and likes to play/engage with other children. As we live in a village, i already worry sometimes that Ava will grow up living a very sheltered lifestyle (no real crime, no real ethnic groups, everyone is pretty much white, christian, british) and if i keep her at home i feel this would only intensify.

But i salute your commitment to your childrens education. I pulled out some Jolly Phonics today, and thought, 'she isnt even two, calm down!'. I think the real reason your children will suceed is due to the parental involvement and encouragement they will recieve :)
 

chadk

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alfiethetortoise said:
I find this thread very interesting. I have to agree with Jordan though, that for many people home schooling is just not an option....

Chad- i am sure your children (all seven of them, yikes!) are recieving a top rate home school education. The pictures pretty much prove that. But i have no 'choice' but to send my daughter to school, when the time comes. As a single parent, i cannot afford not to be working, and staying at home with her every day instead. Also, your 7 children have eachother everyday at home school. My one very sociable child, would be stuck with just me. I have doubts on what this would do to her socail skills, especially as she is already very sociable and likes to play/engage with other children. As we live in a village, i already worry sometimes that Ava will grow up living a very sheltered lifestyle (no real crime, no real ethnic groups, everyone is pretty much white, christian, british) and if i keep her at home i feel this would only intensify.

But i salute your commitment to your childrens education. I pulled out some Jolly Phonics today, and thought, 'she isnt even two, calm down!'. I think the real reason your children will suceed is due to the parental involvement and encouragement they will recieve :)

I agree with everything you just said. Clearly not everyone is going to want to or be able to home school. I'm not advocating that at all. Simply painting a picture of a modern homeschool family and showing that we aren't some scary weird backcwards sheltered freaks... It is a valid choice we should be free to make in America. That is my only point.

For parents of one child, socialization is as simple as setting up play dates, spending time at the park, playing with kids in the neighborhood, playing on a local sports club, etc etc.

I'm always amazed at how UNsocial kids are at the local jr high and high school where my 2 daughters have been attending. Most have their faces buried in their phones texting and hardly ever look an adult in the eye, let alone communicate in a meaningful way with one (even with their own peers... especially if they are not a member of their little clique). Yes, there are many who are very good socially because their parents work with them and they have an outgoing personality. But to think that sending kids off to a public school is some kind of cure or solution to socialization, you'd be mistaken.

This story of 'socialized' public school kids came out today. Sadly, these stories are more and more common in the Seattle area and probably around the country. This one is only unique in that it was all caught on video:
Vidoe:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/fl...rbc3.html?bcpid=30884189001&bctid=65855483001
Story:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2011027703_webbeating09m.html
 

DoctorCosmonaut

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Some neighborhoods and parks aren't that great for children. Unfortunately some people can't afford to get out of that neighborhood or the parents themselves aren't as good of an influence as some teachers are. Sometimes a public school is the best thing and safest place a child has... Sad world :(

* And Tyler, the issue with private schools is accountability and qualification. For example, in Oregon there is no law regulating what qualifications private school teachers must have, nor that they must have a background check. So, the local Christian private school near my childhood home would hire people with some higher education (they don't even have to do that if they don't want to), but not necessarily in the field or with any background in teaching. While a public school teacher, in Oregon, must pass a general knowledge test (math, reading, writing -- to make sure they aren't completely incompetent), they must then specialize in what they are going to teach (taking a plethora of classes in that subject), they must major in the field they are going to teach, then they must take a standardized test on the subject to certify they have a wide and adequate knowledge to teach about the topic, they must be finger printed and have an FBI and State Police background check done, they then have to have several hundred hours of Student teaching in, they must also have a 2nd degree (aside from their content area degree) in education, and then they have 8 years to get a masters or they loose their license! All of these are rarely required by private schools, and most do not perform finger printing or other safety measures. Now private schools have the right to regulate as much or as little as they want, just saying, that each year the requirements for becoming a public school teacher increase a ton... Since I began my program they have added two new tests and upped the hours needed in the classroom (I will say that older teachers, those you may have been scarred by, didn't have such rigorous standards... but tomorrow's teachers will!)
 
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Maggie Cummings

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The kid next door is 7 or 8 and a pretty bright kid. But he's active and has a short attention span so they decided he had adhd or addpt or addhpptt or some of that stuff I know nothing about. I personally think there's simply a lack of self discipline in the kid. He was allowed to run amok and that hasn't changed. No discipline to make the kid sit still or pay attention. They need to be taught shelf discipline from the time they are small. Made to sit still in a restaurant (and hope he's not sitting close to me) for instance. In my day he'd be sent to the principles office and stood in a corner or something like that.
So now he is home schooled, and what that means is the kid is outside playing all day. Running around like a crazy person. I admit I know nothing about home schooling, but from what I've seen since I got on line and joined a bunch of list serves and forums is there just isn't enough education happening in the basics, adults who can't spell and evidently can't use spel check. People who don't know simple social skills and can't communicate...because they weren't taught that stuff in school. I could go on but I won't...
I went to a private Catholic school until I finally got kicked out in the ninths grade..what a relief!!!
 

TylerStewart

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DoctorCosmonaut said:
* And Tyler, the issue with private schools is accountability and qualification. For example, in Oregon there is no law regulating what qualifications private school teachers must have, nor that they must have a background check. So, the local Christian private school near my childhood home would hire people with some higher education (they don't even have to do that if they don't want to), but not necessarily in the field or with any background in teaching. While a public school teacher, in Oregon, must pass a general knowledge test (math, reading, writing -- to make sure they aren't completely incompetent), they must then specialize in what they are going to teach (taking a plethora of classes in that subject), they must major in the field they are going to teach, then they must take a standardized test on the subject to certify they have a wide and adequate knowledge to teach about the topic, they must be finger printed and have an FBI and State Police background check done, they then have to have several hundred hours of Student teaching in, they must also have a 2nd degree (aside from their content area degree) in education, and then they have 8 years to get a masters or they loose their license! All of these are rarely required by private schools, and most do not perform finger printing or other safety measures.

The qualification is the easiest part to sort out, though. There's certainly plenty of people that are at least as qualified as the current batch of teachers. The difference is, they'd be working for private individuals instead of the govt, so they would actually have to perform or they would lose their jobs. Good schools would be able to charge higher rates, and bad schools or schools that broke rules would go out of business or be shut down. There certainly should be a bar that any school should be at in order to stay operational, and as long as any school, public or private can maintain that standard or higher, it's an approved school.

I realize many of us aren't in the position to pay for private school... Which is why I think the people that want to shouldn't be taxed on it, which would help cover most or all of the costs of sending their kids to those schools. Like I said, my kid is in public school. But if I was getting a tax break for him not to be, I'd send him to a private one.
 

chadk

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maggie3fan said:
The kid next door is 7 or 8 and a pretty bright kid. But he's active and has a short attention span so they decided he had adhd or addpt or addhpptt or some of that stuff I know nothing about. I personally think there's simply a lack of self discipline in the kid. He was allowed to run amok and that hasn't changed. No discipline to make the kid sit still or pay attention. They need to be taught shelf discipline from the time they are small. Made to sit still in a restaurant (and hope he's not sitting close to me) for instance. In my day he'd be sent to the principles office and stood in a corner or something like that.
So now he is home schooled, and what that means is the kid is outside playing all day. Running around like a crazy person. I admit I know nothing about home schooling, but from what I've seen since I got on line and joined a bunch of list serves and forums is there just isn't enough education happening in the basics, adults who can't spell and evidently can't use spel check. People who don't know simple social skills and can't communicate...because they weren't taught that stuff in school. I could go on but I won't...
I went to a private Catholic school until I finally got kicked out in the ninths grade..what a relief!!!

Good point maggie. Some kids are such hard cases for the schools to handle, they kick the kids out. Either the parent has to pay for a private tutor, private school, or homeschool. Or in some cases, drug their kids enough so they are zombies at school and not causing so many issues... And since most can't afford it, they 'homeschool'. And of course, their little monster they created probably won't get any better since they allowed him to get out of control in the first place... Big difference between choosing to homeschool because you KNOW you can do better than the public school, and being FORCED to homeschool becuase nobody else can handle little johnny...

DoctorCosmonaut said:
Some neighborhoods and parks aren't that great for children. Unfortunately some people can't afford to get out of that neighborhood or the parents themselves aren't as good of an influence as some teachers are. Sometimes a public school is the best thing and safest place a child has... Sad world :(

You seem to think I am saying that homeschooling is the best answer for everyone in every situtation. The sad thing is, sometimes there really isn't a 'best' answer. I know there are some awesome caring and effective teachers out there. We are best friends with some of them. Again, all i'm saying is that for some, homeschooling is a valid option that should not be looked down on or treated as anything other than one option parents have when it comes to educating their kids.
 

DoctorCosmonaut

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Oh I know you aren't saying homeschooling is the best for everyone and the only option. ^_^ There's good and bad in it all, and the options work for some and don't for others, and there are good private/public teachers and good parents and there are bad ones too. C'est la vie!
 

ChiKat

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alfiethetortoise said:
I pulled out some Jolly Phonics today, and thought, 'she isnt even two, calm down!'.

Jolly Phonics!!! That's what we use with the students in my kindergarten class :D You are the only other person I've heard reference that before! Is it more common over there in the UK since it was developed by a teacher in England?

Oops sorry...probably should have taken this to a PM!

I think when the time comes for me to have children I will probably send them to school, but they will still have ample opportunities to learn at home. I don't plan on having children for several years though, so that could change!
Chad, out of curiousity how old are your children?
 

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There are multiple strategies for improving the behavior of ADD or ADHD kids...unfortunately there is no ONE solution there, either. I must just be living in a public school bubble here because the teachers I know work with parents to help the kid practice self-control...stools with one leg so the kids have to move more to balance, chairs with wide rubber bands around the legs so they can prop their feet, push or pull with their legs, again to provide a physical outlet...giving those kids the jobs of sharpening pencils, taking messages to the office, being a bus buddy to a kindergartener. My point here is that teachers work their butts off to provide a personalized education to all of their 25ish students, taking each kid's strengths and challenges into account. It's kind of like being a parent to 25 kids at once (and especially kindergarteners, as Katie and I know!)

HOWEVER, it is also true that chronically disruptive kids demand so much time and attention that the rest of the class suffers multiple interruptions of their instructional time and that's just the bottom line. There are also parents who insist that little Johnny is just gifted, and since he's bored he's acting out...to that I say what I always said to my own kids: You have no excuse for disrupting other kids' learning experiences; if you're bored, and the rest of the class is not ready to move on yet, pull out a book and read!!

So again, you can see where home schooling may be helpful to some kids, and some kids may only need it for a year or two, some may need it till high school, etc. I just don't want the schools to be the scapegoat for society's ills--PARENTS must do their job first, and kids must be held accountable by parents and teachers. No child should be promoted for social reasons, but schools do that because by law, parents must agree to have their child retained before schools can enact the policy, and VERY few parents will "allow" their kid to flunk (which is funny because the kid already flunked the knowledge, and will not prosper in the next grade if he is that far behind...)!
 

terryo

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There are multiple strategies for improving the behavior of ADD or ADHD kids...unfortunately there is no ONE solution there, either. I must just be living in a public school bubble here because the teachers I know work with parents to help the kid practice self-control...stools with one leg so the kids have to move more to balance, chairs with wide rubber bands around the legs so they can prop their feet, push or pull with their legs, again to provide a physical outlet...giving those kids the jobs of sharpening pencils, taking messages to the office, being a bus buddy to a kindergartener. My point here is that teachers work their butts off to provide a personalized education to all of their 25ish students, taking each kid's strengths and challenges into account. It's kind of like being a parent to 25 kids at once (and especially kindergarteners, as Katie and I know!)

Wow...that is amazing. What a wonderful school that must be, and what wonderful teachers. I wish you were here in NY where my kids went to school. I happen to have been very lucky that my kids got good grades and didn't give any trouble. I do have one son that was partially deaf. He had a 70% hearing loss. He was put in a resource room with other kids who had different disabilities. They put him in the back of the class because I was told he was good and he gave no trouble, and they had to put the hard to handle kids in the front of the room so they could be watched, even though my son couldn't read lips or hear from back there. I had to fight, not only his school, but the board of ed. for every little thing for him in grade school. Most everything he learned wasn't from that resource room. It was from his family sitting with him every day, teaching him to read, do math etc.. I can tell that you are one of those teachers who are dedicated and caring, but thirty years ago here in NY I couldn't find anyone like that. By the time he got to middle school, I was lucky enough to have moved into a higher tax district, and he went to a much better school with more advantages for kids with disabilities. How unfair is that? I had a cousin in another state that adopted a child with disabilities and home schooled him and he did very well and went on to college.
 
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