Hibernation Testudo Graeca

Zaffy

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A couple of days ago, my adult spur thighed Testudo Graeca tortoise started to hibernate.
Last night, I read not to allow tortoise to hibernate until tortoise has been to the toilet and not fed for 2 weeks after that.
So, I got my tortoise out of his box and put him in some warm water.
Afterwards, he strode around the kitchen floor asking me for food. I figure he knows best, so I fed him.
Again, today (October 9th) he has eaten quite a bit.
What to do?
Do I tell tortoise he is not allowed to eat?
Or do I wait for tortoise to tell me he does not want to eat?
And how do I keep him awake for two weeks after his last meal.
Tortoise belonged to my elderly brother
Brother has owned tortoise for over 50 years. Brother never used computers and was not aware of any in depth information. Brother used to just put him away mid-October.
Concerned, and want to do the correct thing.
 

JoesMum

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With my Greek, who we've had for 46 years, his appetite just slows right off before hibernation.

He will eat after soak, but much less than normal. If your tort is indoors in the warm and soaked them chances are his appetite will pick up a bit.

With Joe he's outdoors 24/7 (see here). I bring him in to soak mid afternoon and pop him back out again. He may well eat a little right up to the day he hibernates, but I stop offering food and using the outdoor heat lamp in the final week of the wind-down.
 

Zaffy

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This is why I am so confused. My brother, who got tortoise to 50 years, has moved into a flat and donated tortoise to me. Such a responsibility. Brother says, tortoise is awake until he is asleep - end of story. But being new to this, I am reading up on the subject, and I have read that your tortoise can rot from the inside without a last poo of the season. And allowing them to wee and then sleep is also a big no, no.
 

JoesMum

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Whereabouts in the world are you @Zaffy

And where do you keep this tortoise?

Did your brother used to box him up, or did he just let him hibernate outdoors?
 

Zaffy

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We are in Buckinghamshire UK. South East England. Brother used to put him in a box with newspaper and keep him in the house. I did this last year in my house. Room was not cold. I did not know anything about weeing and pooping. Boris just slowed down and I popped him in a box in the corner of the room. Then Boris woke up.

Last year, I was relaxed about it. Now I know too much but not enough and so need help thanks.
 

JoesMum

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@Zaffy Your tort needs not to hibernate on a full stomach, but it will never be completely empty.

It also needs to be fully hydrated before hibernation.

What you may have heard about is if a tort pees in hibernation. This means it has woken and allowing it stay boxed does pose health risks - the tort should be taken out of hibernation if it pees. It's only happened once to me.

Monitoring your tort throughout hibernation is vital. I weigh Joe before he hibernates and check on him weekly throughout. I'm looking for pee.

I weigh him fortnightly through hibernation - it's like handling a house brick; he has no idea. If more than 10% bodyweight is lost then your tort must be roused.

Obviously these checks enable you to see when he's stirring and get him up when the time comes.

Typically British garden torts were bunged in a box when they went into hibernation and left in it until the weather warmed up. I daren't risk that with Joe now. I am much more careful. In fact this year, for the first time, we'll be hibernating him in a specially bought fridge (standard fridge bought specially for Joe) as the weather here in Kent can't be guaranteed to stay cool enough for safe hibernation.
 
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JoesMum

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Hibernation occurs properly below 10C so your house is too warm. You need a garage or similar where temperature will stay below 10C and above freezing. Around 5C is ideal.

I always put Joe in a double box for temperature stability. He goes in a small box with paper. That box goes in a much larger box packed with straw for insulation.

Joe has the wireless probe from an indoor/outdoor thermometer in his box with him - it has a min/max function. This means I can keep track of the temperature in his box.
 
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Zaffy

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Thank you so much for your interest but your thread leaves me even more confused.
Brother for over 50 years, as you say, bunged tortoise in a box. And last year this is what I did and the house is warm. And all has been well.
I have heard of people leaving tortoises in garages and the mice or rats have eaten them.
And someone left theirs in the garage and did not hear it wake and it died.
I am still confused. If Brother and I have done so wrong, have we been lucky all these years?
Boris's actual survival does not fit in with expert advice.
I think Brother would not allow me to put Boris in a fridge.
I read, tortoise should stay awake a fortnight after last feed. It seems Joe does not do this and he is just fine.
Do you see my frustration about advise versus real life?
The last time I weighed Boris he was 1kg. I find the idea of weighing a tortoise strange too because surely nearly all the weight is in the shell.
 

JoesMum

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Can you tell me how long Boris is?

You measure straight carapace length like this
http://www.tlady.clara.net/measure.htm

1kg seems light for a tort the same as Joe (he's 3.3kg) but you may have a much smaller Greek (Joe is particularly large)

The way torts have been hibernated in the UK seems to have worked fine for many for years. You can carry on doing the same and things should be fine.

Let me explain why we changed.

Joe's history began in Bedfordshire as my husband's 7th birthday present. When my husband's parents were in charge of hibernation (while my husband was a child) he went in a box in the roof.

We tried that the first year he moved in with us around 30 years ago, but Kent is much warmer and Joe ended up roaming the roof! We went for double-boxing and our garage (complete with mouse traps) after that.

We had one bad hibernation about 7 years ago when Joe woke with a bad respiratory infection that took a very long recovery time and we've been scared stiff ever since; much more careful about health and monitoring.

I understand your confusion and your fear. The purist view of a completely empty stomach is both impractical in my view and improbable in wild tortoises. There is bound to be some food in the digestive system.

Joe grinds to a halt. I dry him off and I hibernate him. I keep an eye on him through the winter and when the weather starts to turn and/or he stirs then I get him up and I soak him daily.

We have changed our care for him as the climate has got warmer and, especially after he was sick, to try to ensure we never get in that mess again.

This thread explains how we care for Joe
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/outdoor-accommodation-in-a-colder-uk-climate.140866/

This doesn't mean you are doing things wrong. As my vet put it when Joe was sick... "you must have been doing things right for the last few decades."
 

Zaffy

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Boris would not tuck his head in so length includes his head. 20cm (8 inches).
Weight (as of just now) = 1055 grams. Weight in July 1000 grams.
I will find a cooler spot. Maybe in the porch but I want to be able to hear him (or not) every day.
Brother loves Boris but is curiously uninterested in research. He did not know where Boris came from or his species. Information which I found from a very knowledgeable person on this website.
So now we know he is a Testudo Gracea Gracea or Mediterranean spur-thighed tortoise and confirmed a male. Which is good for Boris because a name change after all these years could have caused Boris and brother some confusion.
Another thing which concerns me is that Boris, since leaving his siblings over 50 years ago, has not met another tortoise.
 

JoesMum

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Boris is much smaller than Joe. Joe is over 10 inches long... hence the weight difference :)

Just be sure the porch doesn't freeze. If it's going to be a frosty night then pull him in just for the night if you're in doubt.

As for meeting another tortoise, tortoises are not social. They don't need, want or particularly like company. Another tortoise of either gender is competition for food and space and needs to be seen off. Fights can be very nasty indeed. In the wild, they roam huge distances, meet up to mate and move on. Boris is perfectly happy alone just like Joe :)
 

Zaffy

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Thank you for your help and support. Pleased to know Boris isn't lonely.
 

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