Hi from Mesa: Dobby the desert tortoise

DobbyAZ

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hi, we live in Arizona and adopted Dobby from the AZ fish and game tortoise rescue. What we know: he’s about 40, eight(ish) lbs and was turned into the rescue after being found wandering Tucson neighbourhoods.

His outdoor enclosure is about 300 square feet. We’re making some modifications to it bc we used wood and plexiglass glass and he is pacing the plexi for awhile. We didn’t think see-through was bad, but now we’ve learned (from the forums!) that torts may not understand glass??

He seems to be settling in, but he flipped himself over twice today trying to climb up the plexi... strange since he didn’t do that at ALL the first week (today is day 7).

We’re trying to figure out what his ‘normal’ pattern is, it seems to be sleeping under his grasses TIL about 6am, then he heads into his burrow throughout the hottest part of the day. He comes out late afternoon, and then he paces, then settles in for the night.

Thanks for all the great forum info!

Tracy

Ps: I can’t yet figure out how to add a photo, am trying :)
 

waswondering

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hi, we live in Arizona and adopted Dobby from the AZ fish and game tortoise rescue. What we know: he’s about 40, eight(ish) lbs and was turned into the rescue after being found wandering Tucson neighbourhoods.

His outdoor enclosure is about 300 square feet. We’re making some modifications to it bc we used wood and plexiglass glass and he is pacing the plexi for awhile. We didn’t think see-through was bad, but now we’ve learned (from the forums!) that torts may not understand glass??

He seems to be settling in, but he flipped himself over twice today trying to climb up the plexi... strange since he didn’t do that at ALL the first week (today is day 7).

We’re trying to figure out what his ‘normal’ pattern is, it seems to be sleeping under his grasses TIL about 6am, then he heads into his burrow throughout the hottest part of the day. He comes out late afternoon, and then he paces, then settles in for the night.

Thanks for all the great forum info!

Tracy

Ps: I can’t yet figure out how to add a photo, am trying :)
Are you sure he is 48 lbs?!? He looks wayyyy to small to be that heavy. Anyways the plexiglass stuff is a myth that some still believe. This myth came from people buying tortoise from a pet store and putting them in a glass tank, the tortoise would walk back and forth. However, when you put that same tortoise in a box that is covered on all sides the tortoise acts the same. Anyways the answer to why your tortoise is pacing is (I believe) because he is looking for food. The reason he might start flipping over is because he is trying to look places in his cage that are harder to get to and there for flipping over. Just make sure you put food out for him at about 5:30-6 PM and you should be good. Because tortoise in Arizona summer have such a small window of time to eat in the day you should make sure that he doesn't finish until he stops by himself.

Good luck,
Hope this helps
 

Blackdog1714

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I think you may right on the age and weight, but to my very untrained eye that does not look like a sulcata, but a desert tortoise. Maybe @Yvonne G or @Tom can clarify. No matter what AWESOME for you giving this little brute a home. I would suggest a solid fence though since he is a known ROAMER. Again AWESOME!
 

Yvonne G

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That is a desert tortoise, not a sulcata. It is a protected species and is owned by the State of Arizona, and as such you need a permit to keep it.

I don't see where the original poster says it's a sulcata???
 

Yvonne G

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Oops. . . it 's in the title. I'll fix that.
 

Blackdog1714

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That is a desert tortoise, not a sulcata. It is a protected species and is owned by the State of Arizona, and as such you need a permit to keep it.

I don't see where the original poster says it's a sulcata???
In the thread title Doby the Sulcata
 

Tom

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I agree with Blackdog and Yvonne. You've got a nice DT there. 300 sq. feet is pretty small for an adult tortoise of that size. I'd go much bigger if possible.

Grass hay is a good food, but the stuff you've got there looks like oat hay? Or a Timothy hay mix? Too thick and stemmy whatever it is. Orchard grass hay or Bermuda gras hay will serve you much better.
 

Tom

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Are you sure he is 48 lbs?!? He looks wayyyy to small to be that heavy.
40 years, and 8-ish pounds.

Anyways the plexiglass stuff is a myth that some still believe. This myth came from people buying tortoise from a pet store and putting them in a glass tank, the tortoise would walk back and forth. However, when you put that same tortoise in a box that is covered on all sides the tortoise acts the same.
This is a myth in regards to starting small tortoise babies in tanks indoors. Outdoors, a lack of a visual barrier can be, and usually is, a problem, as this poster has learned the hard way. In outdoor enclosures, a visual barrier is a necessity for any species and any age.

Just want to make sure you have the right info... :)
 

DobbyAZ

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Thanks everyone! Yep, you are all right. I got Sulcata and Sonoran confused in my head.. hes certified for adoption (so legal!) and seems to love Timothy Hay that’s been soaked in warm water for three minutes.we also let him free range (supervised) the yard in the evenings and he gets plenty of fresh Bermuda grass there.

But it’s the fence that’s the issue right now, so my husband’s out there making it not-see-through. We may be able to extend his outdoor space in the spring. :)
 

DobbyAZ

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I agree with Blackdog and Yvonne. You've got a nice DT there. 300 sq. feet is pretty small for an adult tortoise of that size. I'd go much bigger if possible.

Grass hay is a good food, but the stuff you've got there looks like oat hay? Or a Timothy hay mix? Too thick and stemmy whatever it is. Orchard grass hay or Bermuda gras hay will serve you much better.
Thanks, I’ll investigate the others you mentioned. In the care package the AZ facility gave us it listed Timothy Hay as a best feeding option and is what he was fed in their care?
 

Maro2Bear

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Whew....i saw this post earlier and thought, ok, this is NOT a Sulcata. I re-read the post, adopted from a AZ authority....but, still, those paws n claws are NOT Sulcata looking. Sooooooooooooooooloo, glad to see all the comments n corrections. My eyes are still good.
 

Tom

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Thanks, I’ll investigate the others you mentioned. In the care package the AZ facility gave us it listed Timothy Hay as a best feeding option and is what he was fed in their care?
Its not. Those guys, and most government organizations, as well as most websites don't give great info on this species. Sad. Many of them die as a result. Hardly any babies survive because people are taught to care for them incorrectly. All of the babies that I take in survive. I've only ever lost one, and that is because he was almost dead when he was finally handed to me.

The main problems are:
  • Wrong diet. Grass is good and succulents like spineless opuntia pads should make up a large percentage of the diet. Grocery store greens and lettuce aren't toxic, but that stuff is not very good tortoise food either. Mulberry and grape leaves, hibiscus, and many types of weeds all make up a good diet for them.
  • Temperature extremes. In the wild they are deep underground. This avoids the extreme highs and lows at the surface. I'm glad you guys made a burrow there, but stick a temp probe or a thermometer down there during the day and see how hot it gets. The ground temps where the wild ones are are consistently 80 all summer and 50 all winter, with about a 6 week transition period in spring and fall. What is the temp at the bottom of your burrow at 4pm on a 110 degree day? How about at 4am on a 30 degree winter night?
  • Small enclosures. Self-explanatory, but tortoises need locomotion to help move things along the GI tract. Much like a horse. Small enclosures hamper their movement. I don't think your enclosure is so small that this would be an issue, but bigger would be better.
  • Lack of hydration. I think this is probably the biggest DT killer of all. Yes they come from a desert, but in the wild they search out microclimates of higher humidity, and they avoid the above ground temperature extremes. Especially babies, of which very few wild ones survive. Get two tubs of water. Set an aquarium heater in in each and set one to 80 degrees and the other to 114. Compare the rate of water loss due to evaporation. All we have to do to offset this problem is keep them hydrated. So easy. So simple. Yet few websites or .Gov types even mention this. Babies should be soaked daily. Adults should be soaked two or three times a week during hot weather. Every day wouldn't hurt them, but probably not necessary. Use a large, tall-sided, opaque tub, and keep the water warm for the whole soak, which is easy in summer. The water should come about a third to halfway up the shell. 30-60 minutes is adequate. 10 minutes is better than noting if you are short on time, and 3 hours won't hurt anything. Other hydration tips: Wet the food. Get a garden hose and make a puddle in the yard. Feed lots of nopales. Have several large shallow water tubs sunk into the ground so the rim is about level with the surface.
  • Free roaming is a recipe for disaster. They always find a way to escape, hurt themselves, get chewed up by a dog, or ingest something toxic or deadly. Don't do it. Don't learn this lesson the hard way. You've got a nice looking secure enclosure there. If you feel it is too small, make it bigger instead of letting the tortoise roam. There is another problem: When you let them learn that there is a great big world out there, they want to be out in it. The result is usually incessant pacing along the wall of their enclosure and flipping. Sound familiar? Let the tortoise get used to the inside of its enclosure and soon it will accept its boundaries and become much more content.
Care for DTs is about the same as for Russian tortoises. Compare this info to what you were taught by the people you adopted from:
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/russian-tortoise-care-sheet.80698/
 

JLMDVM

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Not able to ID the tortoise like the others, but that’s a nice looking cattle dog that snuck into the second photo! Tortoise adorable too!
 

AZGirl

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Tom, that’s some good info there. I just posted a new one also. Is warm tap water ok to use? I soak my Guy, but not long enough according to your post. And for sure Az GF and Desert Museum do not say Anything about that.
 

TammyJ

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The tortoise is beautiful! Don't let the dog get to him!!!:eek:
The dog is nice too.....:cool:
 

Tom

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Tom, that’s some good info there. I just posted a new one also. Is warm tap water ok to use? I soak my Guy, but not long enough according to your post. And for sure Az GF and Desert Museum do not say Anything about that.
My standard has always been that if the tap water is safe for you, then its safe for your reptiles too.

Here's one more point to drive it all home: I have a friend that soaks baby sulcatas for 5-6 hours at a time, every day. He puts them in a kiddie pool and keeps it half in the sun. He monitors temps very carefully for the entire time. Do they need 6 hours soaks? No. Absolutely not. But it does no harm, and his babies thrive and grow and look fantastic. A 30 minute soak should be enough. 60 minutes won't hurt a thing. You can't soak them too much, but you can certainly soak them too little.
 

AZGirl

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Are you sure he is 48 lbs?!? He looks wayyyy to small to be that heavy. Anyways the plexiglass stuff is a myth that some still believe. This myth came from people buying tortoise from a pet store and putting them in a glass tank, the tortoise would walk back and forth. However, when you put that same tortoise in a box that is covered on all sides the tortoise acts the same. Anyways the answer to why your tortoise is pacing is (I believe) because he is looking for food. The reason he might start flipping over is because he is trying to look places in his cage that are harder to get to and there for flipping over. Just make sure you put food out for him at about 5:30-6 PM and you should be good. Because tortoise in Arizona summer have such a small window of time to eat in the day you should make sure that he doesn't finish until he stops by himself.

Good luck,
Hope this helps

Another fairly new AZ DT owner here. Could you elaborate on the ‘window of time to eat’ in AZ. Now I am at higher elevation than Sir Dobby here, 5300’ (hi fellow AZ DT owner), but I thought he’d eat at any time. What is the eating window about. bTW, love Dobby’s habitat enclosure and he’s a handsome fella. Also, after read8ng all the links you all passed, Imhave been worried about my Parker as I’ve seen him moving his head when breathing, just a little. I finally found a reptile vet in the area and we are going Monday. His mouth looks dark too and I’m afraid to let him hibernate unless I know he’s ok. You guys rock here on this forum, so glad to have found it. Thank you in advance.
 

AZGirl

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My standard has always been that if the tap water is safe for you, then its safe for your reptiles too.

Here's one more point to drive it all home: I have a friend that soaks baby sulcatas for 5-6 hours at a time, every day. He puts them in a kiddie pool and keeps it half in the sun. He monitors temps very carefully for the entire time. Do they need 6 hours soaks? No. Absolutely not. But it does no harm, and his babies thrive and grow and look fantastic. A 30 minute soak should be enough. 60 minutes won't hurt a thing. You can't soak them too much, but you can certainly soak them too little.

Thank you Tom. Glad to hear I’m not hurting Parker with tap water. I have started soaking him everyday or every other day since I read your post on same. He seems to love it. I take him out when he starts trying to climb out. But he seems good for 15 to 30 minutes. I did put ‘pool’ in half sun half shade but didn’t monitor temp after initial filling with about 80 degree water. It’s clear I need to purchase some different types of thermometers. Also, found reptile vet I posted below because he seemed to be moving his head while breathing and his mouth looks black to me and didn’t before. Thanks for all your help. Sorry to chime in on your Dobby post, hope you don’t mind but I’ve been following it because we are close in proximity. Thanks again, Dee.
 

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