Hermann tortoise bone density and hibernation help!

[amy_x1]

Hi

I got my Hermann tortoise about 2 months ago. He was previously kept in a vivarium with heat mat, lamp, and uv light, however upon speaking to several people and researching the best ways to keep him, I now keep him in a tortoise table with heat lamp for basking and a uv lamp. He now has his hiding area whereas he didn't have this before.

Over the last 2 weeks he has been what appears to me to be 'winding down'. He has been eating less, and sleeping throughout most of the day. A handful of times I have had to wake him up to get him moving and to come out into the light and heat.

He has never been hibernated before, so I had decided not to attempt hibernation with him at all this year due to my inexperience with him and his never having done so previously.

However, all the signs point to him wanting to hibernate. I think this is due to the fact that he is now kept in an open tortoise table where natural light is all around him (he's kept in our porch out the back of the house, so all windows etc) and also that he's probably cooler than he was before as I haven't given him a heat mat as I've heard they aren't great for tortoises. His basking area is at the right temperatures etc, but he just doesn't seem to want to come out of his hiding area much these last couple of weeks.

So... I decided if he wanted to hibernate I would help him do just that. However from research it would seem his bone density needs to be at a certain amount, and if it's too low then it's too dangerous for him to hibernate. Having weighed and measured him this afternoon it would appear his bone density is only .15 where it should be .20 or more, therefore meaning I cannot prepare to hibernate him. I had already begun the fasting process for the last week or so.

Basically, any help would be greatly welcome. I know some people say they don't think hibernation is necessary etc, but it seems that my tort does.

Any ideas on what I could or should do? And is there a way I can get his bone density up?

Many thanks

Amy

 

[Yvonne G]

I hate to show my ignorance, but exactly how do you measure bone density?

 

[amy_x1]

Using the formula on page 3 of this care sheet -

http://www.tortoiseclub.org/CareSheets/Hibernation in Mediterranean Tortoises.pdf

 

[GBtortoises]

If your tortoises temperatures and lights are at correct activity levels, he isn't "winding down" to hibernate. What day, night and basking temperatures is the tortoise exposed to on a daily basis? What type of lighting and how long is it on during the daytime?

 

[amy_x1]

Can't seem to post my reply with a web link in it... but using a formula on tortoiseclub.org

The formula states that the tortoise's bone density can be found by weighing the tortoise in grams and dividing it by it's length in centimetres Cubed.

If the result is less than .20 then the tortoise should not be hibernated.

 

[dannel]

I hate to show my ignorance, but exactly how do you measure bone density?

Ditto.

 

[amy_x1]

If your tortoises temperatures and lights are at correct activity levels, he isn't "winding down" to hibernate. What day, night and basking temperatures is the tortoise exposed to on a daily basis? What type of lighting and how long is it on during the daytime?

Daytime temps basking area is around 32 degrees, night time the whole table reads at about 18 degrees. Lighting I turn on when I wake up so about 7 am, 8 am at weekends, then turn off at about 8 pm?

---

If your tortoises temperatures and lights are at correct activity levels, he isn't "winding down" to hibernate. What day, night and basking temperatures is the tortoise exposed to on a daily basis? What type of lighting and how long is it on during the daytime?

Daytime temps basking area is around 32 degrees, night time the whole table reads at about 18 degrees. Lighting I turn on when I wake up so about 7 am, 8 am at weekends, then turn off at about 8 pm?

However the reason I thought he could be winding down was due to the fact that he was completely enclosed before so only had the uv light, whereas now he is with me he is in an open top table and gets a lot of natural light as well as the uv lamp

 

[GBtortoises]

The basking temperature (32c/89f) is a bit on the low side but not all that bad. The night time temperature (18c/64f) is fine, could even be as low as 10c/50f. Ideally around 15c/59f is a good night time range. Hermann's tortoises as well as other northern climate species are very accustomed to a 15-20% degree temperature differential from day to night and it actually plays a role in their activity levels overall. Along with temperatures daylight hours and intensity play an important role in the level of activity. For normal activity they should have well lit daylight hours at least 14-16 hours long with a 15 hour day being ideal. If they are located in a room that recieves light from outdoors through a window their light in their enclosure should come at the same time or very shortly (within a half hour) after being exposed to the outdoor light. Their day starts with the sun coming up. Lights are better put on timers for consistency rather than being manually turned on.

 

[amy_x1]

Thanks, do you have any idea as to why he wants to sleep all day at the moment?

 

[lynnedit]

Sometimes they just go through a short (several weeks) phase. Keep soaking him 1-2x per week. Make sure he looks (eyes, breathing) and functions (poo, urine) normally.

Meanwhile, you could up the basking area to 35c (adjust lamp height but stay in acceptable range, or stronger bulb). Make sure your bulb is under 12 months old. Autumn is a good time to get a new bulb, as it is 'freshest' during the winter months.
The timer is a good idea, lights could then come on as early as 6am, off at 8pm. You can get these at Home Supply stores.
Make sure the enclosure is brightly lit during the day. If you get a lot of dark cloudy days, with less natural light through the window, perhaps add a tube fluorescent bulb along the length of the enclosure, or even just an extra house bulb halfway down.

Sometimes a few adjustments will make a big difference.