here's one for the old timers

[John]

due too some of the debate on husbandry and out of my own quest for knowledge i,I have begun too research backwards,in doing so two forum phrases have eluded me,the first is that most material is dated ihave seen this several times on the forum and am now wondering how far back i have too go too find this dated material?the second is "the old way of keeping them dry".none of what i have read so far suggests keeping these animals dry the lowest humidity recommendations i could find were made by holger vetter which were 40-60% day with an increase at night too 70-80%.whats puzzling too me is that i can not only not find an author that suggests keeping these animals "dry".but i also see nothing in any of the writings and descriptions of range and evironmental conditions of their natural habitat that would leed me too conclude on my own that they should be kept dry.these animals like most others experience a changing climate which brings another question,what led hobbyists and pet keepers too decide that one part of their natural climate was the one too keep them at continuosly,when throughout their range the climate is very diverse,there is a dry season and a rainy season it can be extremely hot and also get fairly cold.anyway what i am looking fror here is for someone too point me towards the beginning,how the rules of husbandry started out and how they have evolved too now and why? thanks for your help john

 

[Yvonne G]

In my case, it was all word of mouth. I started out with tortoises too many years ago for internet. All my "learning" came from others, either by clubs I joined or just talking to people. The very first club that I joined was the National Turtle and Tortoise Society. It was based in Arizona and was mainly about desert tortoises. I'll go back through some of my newsletters and see if I can find any husbandry articles to re-print for you.

I learned all those years ago, that for indoor habitats, you needed to use alfalfa pellets as substrate. As we all know, you can't wet alfalfa pellets, so the unspoken lesson was they should be dry.

 

[John]

In my case, it was all word of mouth. I started out with tortoises too many years ago for internet. All my "learning" came from others, either by clubs I joined or just talking to people. The very first club that I joined was the National Turtle and Tortoise Society. It was based in Arizona and was mainly about desert tortoises. I'll go back through some of my newsletters and see if I can find any husbandry articles to re-print for you.

I learned all those years ago, that for indoor habitats, you needed to use alfalfa pellets as substrate. As we all know, you can't wet alfalfa pellets, so the unspoken lesson was they should be dry.

excellent response yvonne thank you,this is one confirmation of something i have suspected all along,tortoises like other reptiles in the pet trade are subjected too husbandry methods that may be based on the interpretation of materials printed by the herp comunity(the scientists)by hobbyists,since as we know some of this material can be very vague,assumptions and theorys get fused into it,before the introduction of global comunication rules of husbandry could get established and accepted without debate.i guess it all depends on the recsources available too you and how far you are willing too research for yourself.i have a strong feeling that the past work done by herpotoligists should not be covered with a blanket statement of being dated leading some too believe it should be dismissed,i feel that it may not have been the printed findings of said scientists that was wrong but possibly the interpretation of same.why does any of this matter?simple you can raise an animal close too right and it may survive 10 years,but the animal may have a life span of thirty in its natural habitat,so what was missed with this animal what could have been done differently too better provide for that animal?i feel if we just disregard all the work that has been done and published and go full force with word of mouth we will be no further along 10 years from now.when i first came here and asked for recommended reading material i was givin a list of pet shop books,this made me seriously doubt the knowledge base of the forum,in the passing months i have found that the right people just did not respond.i now think that tortoise keeping is a puzzle,of which many people have the pieces too and until all the pieces can find thier way too the table the book should not be closed.

 

[Balboa]

Good points John,
I'll echo what you already suspect/have found. I doubt you'll find any old scientific texts telling people to keep them dry. (I don't think you'll find many old scientific texts on husbandry for that matter, that's not generally the concern of scientists). There are lots of internet caresheets out there calling for "dry" keeping, but that's open to interpretation. You might be able to dig up some old dime store pet care books that call for dry.

I think its as simple as this:
When these critters first started showing up in pet stores...
"Neat critter! Where's it come from?"
"Africa"
"Well that's all desert right?"
"Yup, Keep 'em hot and dry"

If we look at the TT care sheet
http://www.tortoisetrust.org/Downloads/Leopard.pdf
We see them stating it comes from dry grasslands, (but may be found in areas of high precipitation in the fine print) and that it does not tolerate "damp OR cold" not "damp AND cold". There are however no suggestions as to appropriate humidity.

 

[ALDABRAMAN]

In my case, it was all word of mouth. I started out with tortoises too many years ago for internet. All my "learning" came from others, either by clubs I joined or just talking to people. The very first club that I joined was the National Turtle and Tortoise Society. It was based in Arizona and was mainly about desert tortoises. I'll go back through some of my newsletters and see if I can find any husbandry articles to re-print for you.

I learned all those years ago, that for indoor habitats, you needed to use alfalfa pellets as substrate. As we all know, you can't wet alfalfa pellets, so the unspoken lesson was they should be dry.

Same here, Also when I started not many would share information and not having the communications, like TFO and the interenet, I was always left to fiqure it out on my own. I think in my case, being in Florida was a natural assistance with not having pryamided issues. Today, like TFO and such, is a blessing for so many to learn and share from those that have been working with tortoises for so long. I still love to talk and visit others that do what I do, I always learn. The problem I have is not many do what I do with the species I have. All is good, sometimes certain ways just work better for others.