Help to ID Spider Torts

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SFCMARK

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Hi all. I have 4 Spider Tortoises. Of all the Tortoises I have, these small guys are the hardest to sex. I was hoping I can get some opinions from all the "experts" here. I am trying to breed them, but I have not had any luck yet. Hopefully the pictures came out OK. Let me know. Thanks!

Spiders.JPGSpiders1a.JPGspiders1b.JPGspiders2a.JPGspiders2b.JPGspiders3a.JPGspiders3b.JPGspiders4a.JPGspiders4b.JPG
 
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Tim/Robin

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Hey Mark,

Nice looking animals. Nothing like Spiders! They may be a bit small for accurate sexing, also it is very hard to tell tail length when they stick it right at the camera. :D They are also much too small for breeding. With that said, here are my (Tim) guesses. 1 is a P. a a female, 2 is a P. a a unknown (guess male), 3 is a P a a unknown (too small), 4 looks like a P a brygooi unknown (too small).

Do you know the backgrounds on them? Did you get them all from the same breeder? How old are they? How long have you had them? I ask because #4 does not look to be like the others. It is nearly the same size as 2 and 3 and they both have visible hinges. #4 does not, it certainly looks like a brygooi to me. Even the carapace looks like a brygooi. It should have a hinge at that size. The care is the same, but they should not be allowed to breed. I would not mix a Pyxis arachnoides arachnoides with a Pyxis arachnoides brygooi. There are too few of them in captivity and the blood lines should be kept true to subspecies (IMO). :) Does the plastron of #2 clean off and look like the others or does it have any black spots on the plastron?
 

SFCMARK

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Thanks for the reply. You did confirm my suspecion that there was one "odd-ball" in my group here. #4 does appear to be a P a b. #2 (Name is ZIGGY) I acquired about 5 years ago (from a Pet Store here in Metro Detroit), and it was SUPPOSE to be about 1-2 years old when I got it. So it is at least 7 years old. I agree....Ziggy is looking like a male. #1 (name is HOPE) and #4 (BUMPY) came from a guy in Minnesota. I acquired these 2 about 15 months ago. He had a posting on Kingsnake and just said he did not want them anymore, so I bought them...the price was right even with the shipping cost. #3 (Twiggy) came from a friend of a friend here in Metro Detroit. He just decided to stick with one Tortoise species and it was not Spiders. This one I got about 2 years ago. So thats it, I know nothing more about them.
 

Tim/Robin

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I am wondering if #2 is a P a oblonga. Hence the question about the black on the plastron. #2 seems a bit small for that old, but I do have some that don't seem to ever grow. So anything is possible with Spiders.
 

SFCMARK

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Tim/Robin said:
I am wondering if #2 is a P a oblonga. Hence the question about the black on the plastron. #2 seems a bit small for that old, but I do have some that don't seem to ever grow. So anything is possible with Spiders.

I do not think so....that black is pretty much just dirt stains. He was in black dirt for some time, and I think it kind of stained his plastron some. If I scrub it with a old tooth brush, most of it comes off. I=It is still darker than the others, so maybe you are right.....??????
 

Tim/Robin

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Look for black areas on plastron around the egdes. I think I can see some, but not sure. Clean the plastron and you will know.
 
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