Help (plugged cloaca)

[Marko123]

Hello, this is my first time on this website, and I have a problem with my tortoise. It is testudo hermanni. It has something white and hard in its anus for 3 days and I think it can't poop. Also, its butt is a little bit swollen. I have read that I need to soak it in warm water and I do so every day, but its swelling subsided just a little bit. I hope you can help

 

[Ink]

@Yvonne G might be able to help or another expert

 

[TammyJ]

Yvonne??? You there?

 

[Lyn W]

Hi and welcome,
What substrate are you using?
I'm wondering if it has little white bits in it that he could have eaten and is now having trouble passing. Or maybe he's trying to pass a kidney stone.
Wait and see what some of the more experienced members say @Yvonne G @zovick @ZenHerper
Meanwhile if you post pics of his enclosure with the lamps you are using etc you'll get good feedback to make sure it's as safe as possible for you tort.
This is the caresheet you need

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...

tortoiseforum.org

Keep up the warm shallow soaks - maybe more than once a day while he has that problem.

 

[Marko123]

Hi and welcome,
What substrate are you using?
I'm wondering if it has little white bits in it that he could have eaten and is now having trouble passing. Or maybe he's trying to pass a kidney stone.
Wait and see what some of the more experienced members say @Yvonne G @zovick @ZenHerper
Meanwhile if you post pics of his enclosure with the lamps you are using etc you'll get good feedback to make sure it's as safe as possible for you tort.
This is the caresheet you need

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...

tortoiseforum.org

Keep up the warm shallow soaks - maybe more than once a day while he has that problem.

Hello! Thank you very much for your reply. In its house it has ordinary earth from the store and I think there is nothing in it but I dont know since it is bought in a store. If it is bad for my tortoise, can you tell me a good substrate for it? Also I have 2 lamps and I'm going to post his terrarium as soon as I find out how to.

 

[Lyn W]

Hello! Thank you very much for your reply. In its house it has ordinary earth from the store and I think there is nothing in it but I dont know since it is bought in a store. If it is bad for my tortoise, can you tell me a good substrate for it? Also I have 2 lamps and I'm going to post his terrarium as soon as I find out how to.

The trouble with bought topsoil or compost is that you don't know what's in it and it could contain plants that have had chemicals used on them or are toxic for your tort. Sand is also bad as it could cause impaction if eaten with food and pellets. straw an hay etc are too dry and will mold when wet.
The caresheet I linked will give you better options.

 

[Marko123]

The trouble with bought topsoil or compost is that you don't know what's in it and it could contain plants that have had chemicals used on them or are toxic for your tort. Sand is also bad as it could cause impaction if eaten with food and pellets. straw an hay etc are too dry and will mold when wet.
The caresheet I linked will give you better options.

Wow, it contains a lot of useful advices, thanks.

 

[Lyn W]

Wow, it contains a lot of useful advices, thanks.

That is the most up to date advice and if you follow it your tort should thrive.
I hope one of the members I've tagged will be along soon to help.
I see @mastershake has logged in and he may be able to help.

 

[Yvonne G]

Probably a huge chunk of urates. It should be flaky enough for you to dig at it and crumble it enough to get it out. Use a tweezers. Pinch little pieces of it to break it up.

This happens when the tortoise isn't well hydated.

 

[Marko123]

Probably a huge chunk of urates. It should be flaky enough for you to dig at it and crumble it enough to get it out. Use a tweezers. Pinch little pieces of it to break it up.

This happens when the tortoise isn't well hydated.

Thank you very much! I'm going to try it later because he is sleeping right now.

 

[Marko123]

Probably a huge chunk of urates. It should be flaky enough for you to dig at it and crumble it enough to get it out. Use a tweezers. Pinch little pieces of it to break it up.

This happens when the tortoise isn't well hydated.

Hey, I'm trying to take it out but it is too big and I dont know what to do now

 

[Marko123]

Probably a huge chunk of urates. It should be flaky enough for you to dig at it and crumble it enough to get it out. Use a tweezers. Pinch little pieces of it to break it up.

This happens when the tortoise isn't well hydated.

I am still struggling but I cant, it looks like a stone and it is hard as a stone

 

[zovick]

I am still struggling but I cant, it looks like a stone and it is hard as a stone

You need to take an instrument of some type and break off pieces of that stone until it comes out completely. You can use a very small screwdriver or a good sixed sewing needle to break up the hard mass. If you can't do it, take it to a vet who will do that to remove the stone. Otherwise, your tortoise will soon begin to get necrotic innards and be in worse shape than it is now.

 

[Marko123]

You need to take an instrument of some type and break off pieces of that stone until it comes out completely. You can use a very small screwdriver or a good sixed sewing needle to break up the hard mass. If you can't do it, take it to a vet who will do that to remove the stone. Otherwise, your tortoise will soon begin to get necrotic innards and be in worse shape than it is now.

Hey! Thank you all for you nice advices! I finally did it! And it is huuuge. I think he is good but his anus is also a huge hole now, will it get better?

 

[zolasmum]

Hey! Thank you all for you nice advices! I finally did it! And it is huuuge. I think he is good but his anus is also a huge hole now, will it get better?

Congratulations ! Poor little fellow ! If you can soak him now in warm water, that will probably make him feel more comfortable. I think the swelling will go down now, and he will be able to have a good poop !
Angie

 

[Yvonne G]

This is VERY unusual for such a brand new baby (rock-like urates). Please soak this baby in warm water, in a bowl he can't climb out of, with water coming up to the middle of his sides for a half hour daily! It would also help if you spritz water on his food when you feed him.

 

[zolasmum]

Could you work out what the stone is - is it an ordinary type of garden stone, or does it look man-made?I was just wondering how he could even have swallowed anything that big - or has it in fact built up in him from urates?
How old is he, and what is his name? I hope he will feel better tomorrow -you, too - it must have been so worrying for you.
Best wishes from Angie

 

[Marko123]

Congratulations ! Poor little fellow ! If you can soak him now in warm water, that will probably make him feel more comfortable. I think the swelling will go down now, and he will be able to have a good poop !
Angie

Thanks. He is having a bath right now and the swelling has already gone.

This is VERY unusual for such a brand new baby (rock-like urates). Please soak this baby in warm water, in a bowl he can't climb out of, with water coming up to the middle of his sides for a half hour daily! It would also help if you spritz water on his food when you feed him.

Thanks again. Now I have learned a good lesson

 

[Marko123]

Could you work out what the stone is - is it an ordinary type of garden stone, or does it look man-made?I was just wondering how he could even have swallowed anything that big - or has it in fact built up in him from urates?
How old is he, and what is his name? I hope he will feel better tomorrow -you, too - it must have been so worrying for you.
Best wishes from Angie

I dont think he swallowed it since it is bigger than his foot and in his terrarium there are no stones and rocks, it doesnt even fit in his mouth. I dont know how old he is because I didnt have him since he was born, but I guess he is 3 or 4 years old, and he doesnt have a name.

 

[TeamZissou]

I dont think he swallowed it since it is bigger than his foot and in his terrarium there are no stones and rocks, it doesnt even fit in his mouth. I dont know how old he is because I didnt have him since he was born, but I guess he is 3 or 4 years old, and he doesnt have a name.

The stone is a bladder stone (urolith). Here are @Markw84's five factors for urolith formation:

1. Hydration
2. Specific habit of the individual tortoise in dumping/replacing water held. Some tortoise just seem to retain the habit of holding water longer in their system and therefore get higher concentration of uric acid building.
3. Amount of protein in diet. All uroliths found in tortoises are purine based. So a by-product of protein digestion. An excess of protein in the diet forces the tortoise to process more urates and if holding water, can lead to higher concentrations that will precipitate into the start of the urolith.
4. Temperature. Uric acid precipitates much more readily at lower temperatures. There is a big difference in solubility at 80° vs 65°. A Hermanns tortoise in the wild would normally be feeding and growing when temperatures are higher. In those times, the overnight low, and the ground temperatures are higher there than where you are and in fact, most of the US. Where a tortoise hides overnight is protected from the overnight low we see in weather data. But even that is about 60°-65° through most of their active season. That means, where the tortoise is hiding probably never subjects the tortoise to temps lower than 70° as a minimum during its active season. Feeding a tortoise in captivity in a colder environment, and allowing nighttime temps to drop lower than that can certainly lead to an increase in the formation of uroliths. So feeding through winter is a possible issue with temperature management.
5. The acidity of the gut also dramatically affects precipitation of urates into uroliths. Although in humans a High (alkaline) Ph gut can indeed lead to more uroliths, the uroliths in mammals are mostly calcium based. In tortoises all uroliths studies have been purine based. The reverse is true for purines - lower (acidic) Ph leads to greater precipitation of purine based urates (dramatically lowers solubility). So the types (Ph) of food and water available are also conditions to look at.

My guess is that your tortoise has had a very poor diet. If it is indeed 3-4 years old, it's way undersized. It's about the size of a 3-6 month old. Here's an excerpt on feeding from the care sheet. Pellet type food should only be given a couple of time per week.

Feeding:
So much contradictory info on this subject. Its simple. What do they eat in the wild. Grass, weeds, leaves, flowers, and succulents. Feed them a huge variety of these things, and you'll have a healthy tortoise. All of these species are very adaptable when it comes to diet and there is a very large margin of error, and many ways to do it right. What if you don't have this sort of "natural" tortoise food available for part of each year because you are in the snow? You will have no choice but to buy grocery store food. What's wrong with grocery store food? It tends to lack fiber, some items are low in calcium or have a poor calcium to phosphorous ratio, and some items have deleterious compounds in them. All of these short comings can be improved with some simple supplementation and amendments. A pinch of calcium two times per week will help fix that problem. You can also leave cuttle bone in the enclosure, so your tortoise can self-regulate its own calcium intake. What about fiber? Soaked horse hay pellets, soaked ZooMed Grassland pellets, Mazuri tortoise chow, "Salad style", "Herbal Hay" both from @TylerStewart and his lovely wife Sarah at Tortoisesupply.com, or many of the dried plants and leaves available from Will @Kapidolo Farms. If you must use grocery store foods, favor endive and escarole as your main staples. Add in arugula, cilantro, kale, collard, mustard and turnip greens, squash leaves, spring mix, romaine, green or red leaf lettuce, butter lettuce, water cress, carrot tops, celery tops, bok choy, and whatever other greens you can find. If you mix in some of the aforementioned amendments, these grocery store foods will offer plants of variety and fiber and be able to meet your tortoises nutritional needs just fine. I find it preferable to grab a few grapevine or mulberry leaves, or a handful of mallow and clover, or some broadleaf plantain leaves and some grass, but with the right additions, grocery store stuff is fine too. Grow your own stuff, or find it around you when possible. Tyler and Sarah also sell a fantastic Testudo seed mix that is great for ALL tortoise species and also super easy to grow in pots, trays, raised garden beds, or in outdoor tortoise enclosures. When that isn't possible, add a wide variety of good stuff to your grocery store greens to make them better.