Help! My tortoise has a runny nose, is whistling all the time, and is scratching his face!!!!

newCH

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Maybe in a pinch while he is in the baby bath tub in the tub, is that you can put him on a warm hot water bottle, with a barrier in between, maybe like a towel.
Might make him more cozy and bring his temps up a bit.
 

Minority2

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Maybe in a pinch while he is in the baby bath tub in the tub, is that you can put him on a warm hot water bottle, with a barrier in between, maybe like a towel.
Might make him more cozy and bring his temps up a bit.

What? Are you taking about soaking methods? Because for soaking all you need to do is get a 12 inch dish tub, fill it with warm water, just slightly above or lower than the lip that separates the plastron from the carapace. That way the tortoise never has to force themselves to raise their neck above the water line. Keep them in the tub for 20-30 minutes. Replace the water with more warm water if needed. After the soak you tower dry the tortoise, making sure to gently wipe around sensitive areas and they'll be fine for the day.

If you want to make the tortoise cozy just make sure to get more substrate. That's like the blanket/poncho they use to keep warm at night and cool during the day.

You also need a hide for shade. I just noticed there wasn't a single hide in that little pool enclosure. That's also included in the guide.
 

Clueless Tortoise

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I use a reptile basking bulb. What about his dryness? Continue to give more moisture? I’m going to get him a hide do that’ll help. I’m bathing him every day like u said
 

Clueless Tortoise

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Also what about basking temperatures and cool sides. I read that basking temps should be 90-95 degrees Fahrenheit while cool should be about 70. Is this true? I’m also providing a moist hide. Lastly should I keep his heat mat all day and night? I have a heat mat thermostat so I can control it but I would like to know what temperatures should be
 

Minority2

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I use a reptile basking bulb. What about his dryness? Continue to give more moisture? I’m going to get him a hide do that’ll help. I’m bathing him every day like u said

Replace that reptile basking bulb with a regular non-pet branded incandescent flood styled bulb. Incandescent flood bulbs provide a wider, less concentrated heat source unlike reptile basking bulbs which run much hotter because of it's double reflector design and project much narrower, concentrated heat which dries out a tortoise much faster than an incandescent flood bulb would. Yes always provide shade options in any indoor and or outdoor enclosure.

Also what about basking temperatures and cool sides. I read that basking temps should be 90-95 degrees Fahrenheit while cool should be about 70. Is this true? I’m also providing a moist hide. Lastly should I keep his heat mat all day and night? I have a heat mat thermostat so I can control it but I would like to know what temperatures should be

Basking temperature which is the temperature of a basking area (lamp fixture facing directly downwards) usually measured by where the middle of the light/heat source meets the substrate. That temperature needs to be either 95-105F for Russian tortoises.

Ambient temperature usually refers to the middle of the enclosure but also can refer to the entire enclosure depending on the context. That temperature should be around 80F.

Hot side is the side near where you basking fixture is positioned. That's the area where you're getting higher than ambient temperatures, which is about 85-90F.

Cool side temperature is located on the opposite side of the hot side. For Russian tortoises there may not be a need for a night heating source so that side stays relatively cooler during the day. It should be above room temperature if it's a closed chamber enclosure or near room temperature for open enclosures. During the day it can be around 70F-90F depending on what the temperature is in the room. Nighttime it should stay above 60F. If it routinely dips lower than 60F you should install an additional night time heating source to raise it above that. This should answer your heat mat question.

I don't believe a moist hide is required. At least not if you're planning on putting something like moss or something like that. I wouldn't do something like that. Just pour water on top of their hides if you're really concerned. The tortoise knows when he or she needs to generate more humidity while sleeping in their burrows. Just make sure to raise that substrate level to at least a minimum of 4 inches as soon as possible.
 

Clueless Tortoise

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So its been a week since we moved him inside. I've changed his diet, temperature, lighting, heat, hot spots, cold spots, and everything you can think of ( besides substrate, cause we need to get that this weekend.) It started (if u weren't here before) with the vet saying it was the humidity from being outside causing his whistling and a little bit of snot bubbles. After a week of changing what the exotic vet said and what you all said, he is doing worse. He is whistling more, his snot bubbles are a lot more, he's clicking, rubbing his face all the time, hasn't had water or eaten in a couple of days ( that may be nothing idk ) except a few bites today. He's always hiding in his hide (even though his temps are correct) , is sleeping/ laying in the same spot all day, and isn't active. I took him outside this afternoon for some fresh air and he didn't run around like he usually does. He just dragged himself along the grass/porch. He walked a total of 4 human steps and just laid down. I brought him inside and he just collapsed. He was alive and breathing, but his limbs were all spread out like i've never seen. He didn't move for a long time and I actually thought he was dead for a minute. I touched his arm several times and he finally flinched his arm and blinked but that was it. I could tell he was struggling for breath. I usually hear a clear, constant breath, but he'll click and whistle, and then stop breathing all together, then take a huge breath. I called the vet and he wasn't there so i was told he will most likely return my call tomorrow, but im afraid its a RI or something even worse. What should I keep an eye on and/or do? Also what do you think it is. Sorry,super long but i've never seen this in him before. Idk if its because he's still not used to the humidity, ( which makes no sense since he's inside and in a controlled environment) or if its something else and is serious. Please let me know ASAP.
 

Minority2

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What exactly did you change? Please name them specifically.

From the exotic vet:

From me:

Because if the bubbles are back it sounds the temperature in your enclosure is still getting too low which can cause infections when paired with wet substrate because your current substrate level is too low.

I also said to keep the entire enclosure above 80F day and night for a week or after until the bubbles stay gone. Did you do that? Maybe you continue doing that because it sounds like it's likely still too cold for the tortoise.

The dragging of the leg can mean several things. For example, poor diet of the same food types that contain goitrogens can cause gout like pain which causes tortoises legs to act like that. I can't say for certain if it is that reason because again, I have no idea what you've changed.

Your statement about your tortoise being inside a controlled environment is not true if you're still using an open faced kiddie pool. I've already listed many of the reasons why heat and humidity can escape such a enclosure. And I also questioned how stable the temperatures were at night which I don't think you've replied to and or fixed said issues with day and night time heating.

Struggling to breathe, sounding like a whistle and or click does indicate a good possiblity of having an infection. You should go see the vet for that. The cause is likely wetness combined with cold temperatures.
 

Clueless Tortoise

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Yes he is still in an open faced kiddie pool. Right now there is nothing I can do about that. I have changed his diet and added more weeds and leafy greens, even less treats, and Mazuri tortoise diet food. He has always had a healthy appetite and a healthy diet. I do not believe this is the problem though.

The whole room stays above 80 degrees at all times, with hotspots of 90-100, and cool spots of low 80's. It is always warm and I check the temps every hour almost. It is never cold and wet. Humidity is usually between 50 and 60 percent, lowest is in the 40's. I know all of this because I have a humidity gauge, thermometer, infrared digital thermometer, and a heat mat thermostat. He has his UVB and heating lamp a foot away. I'm giving him baths and exercise daily but still nothing is right. I always make sure the water is the correct temp and that he is dry after his baths. He not only has his lamp and uvb, but as well as a window with pure sunlight, giving it off even more heat. ( no, the humidity doesn't change due to the window. It was built not to open.) It always stays above the 80's, but always below the 100's.

Something is seriously not right, and i'm not sure what it is. I'm doing everything I am supposed to and everything I can, but it's getting worse.
 

Minority2

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Yes he is still in an open faced kiddie pool. Right now there is nothing I can do about that. I have changed his diet and added more weeds and leafy greens, even less treats, and Mazuri tortoise diet food. He has always had a healthy appetite and a healthy diet. I do not believe this is the problem though.

The whole room stays above 80 degrees at all times, with hotspots of 90-100, and cool spots of low 80's. It is always warm and I check the temps every hour almost. It is never cold and wet. Humidity is usually between 50 and 60 percent, lowest is in the 40's. I know all of this because I have a humidity gauge, thermometer, infrared digital thermometer, and a heat mat thermostat. He has his UVB and heating lamp a foot away. I'm giving him baths and exercise daily but still nothing is right. I always make sure the water is the correct temp and that he is dry after his baths. He not only has his lamp and uvb, but as well as a window with pure sunlight, giving it off even more heat. ( no, the humidity doesn't change due to the window. It was built not to open.) It always stays above the 80's, but always below the 100's.

Something is seriously not right, and i'm not sure what it is. I'm doing everything I am supposed to and everything I can, but it's getting worse.

What do you mean by threats? Sugary foods?

The whole room's temperature doesn't matter. That's not how you measure temperature and humidity levels for your indoor enclosure. You measure the substrate, the very thing your tortoise touches.
1. Is your substrate wet? Is the bottom below that wet or dry?
2. What is the temperature directly under the basking fixture at the substrate level.
3. What is the humidity level on the hot side substrate and the cool side substrate?
4. How are you keeping the temperatures inside of the enclosure above 80F at night? Are you measuring the hot and cold side substrate?
5. What humidity and temperature gauge are you using? The tiny cheap non-digital pet branded ones are quite inaccurate. A digital one such as this one on the other hand, has a accuracy rating +1/-1% which is what members generally recommend buying and using instead.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B075QBRR6S/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20
6. Are the light/heating fixtures controlled by a digital timer?

If you are only using the heat mat at night in an open enclosure that's not going to keep the heat in. Heat rises. Even when paired with a temperature controller the heat mat will not be able to keep an open enclosure's temperature stable.
 

Clueless Tortoise

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im measuring all of it. substrate, air temp, heating mats. I'm doing all of the right things. I meant to say treats, not threats. I was talking about his diet. I'm trying to explain that i'm doing everything I can and I want to know what others think this issue is. I'm concerned and he is in a great environment and is well taken care of, but he's sick, and idk what is going on. I was asking if anyone knows or thinks they know what these symptoms mean, (example: Respiratory infection)
 

KronksMom

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I'm so sorry you're going through this. I can tell how much you care about him. Sometimes once an infection begins, antibiotics are necessary. His body may just not be strong enough to fight it off on its own, even if you are doing all the right things to help. @zovick
 

zovick

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im measuring all of it. substrate, air temp, heating mats. I'm doing all of the right things. I meant to say treats, not threats. I was talking about his diet. I'm trying to explain that i'm doing everything I can and I want to know what others think this issue is. I'm concerned and he is in a great environment and is well taken care of, but he's sick, and idk what is going on. I was asking if anyone knows or thinks they know what these symptoms mean, (example: Respiratory infection)
The tortoise does have a respiratory infection, given all the symptoms you have mentioned here. It does need to have some antibiotics to help it fight this off. The best one is ceftazidime (Fortaz). The injections need to be given every three days for milder infections and every other day for more serious ones. I would given your tortoise injections of ceftazidime every other day for 8 days, then go to every third day for another three doses. You will most likely need to have the vet do the injections or at least do the first one and then give you syringes of the medication to take home with you for the other doses. The medication needs to be refrigerated because it deteriorates over time once it has been reconstituted (mixed). The correct dosage for tortoises is 20 to 40 mg per kilo of body weight, so I would stay in the mid-point of the range and give your tortoise 30 mg per kilo of its weight.

Be sure to keep the tortoise warm and well hydrated (soak daily for 20-30 minutes) while it is on the medication because it is excreted by the kidneys.

Good luck.
 

Clueless Tortoise

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I'm so sorry you're going through this. I can tell how much you care about him. Sometimes once an infection begins, antibiotics are necessary. His body may just not be strong enough to fight it off on its own, even if you are doing all the right things to help. @zovick
Thank you so much for that message. I really needed to hear that. I am trying my best and am taking all of this advice very seriously. I love him with all my heart and just want him to be happy and healthy.
 

Clueless Tortoise

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The tortoise does have a respiratory infection, given all the symptoms you have mentioned here. It does need to have some antibiotics to help it fight this off. The best one is ceftazidime (Fortaz). The injections need to be given every three days for milder infections and every other day for more serious ones. I would given your tortoise injections of ceftazidime every other day for 8 days, then go to every third day for another three doses. You will most likely need to have the vet do the injections or at least do the first one and then give you syringes of the medication to take home with you for the other doses. The medication needs to be refrigerated because it deteriorates over time once it has been reconstituted (mixed). The correct dosage for tortoises is 20 to 40 mg per kilo of body weight, so I would stay in the mid-point of the range and give your tortoise 30 mg per kilo of its weight.

Be sure to keep the tortoise warm and well hydrated (soak daily for 20-30 minutes) while it is on the medication because it is excreted by the kidneys.

Good luck.
Thank you so much for explaining the medication to me. I'm with my grandmother so this new vet im seeing isn't the best but is the only exotic vet in this whole county. This vet hasn't really explained much to me, just saying all of it was because of the humidity outside. I will definitely bring up ceftazidime (Fortaz) and talk to him about dosages. My tortoise doesn't whistle or click every single breath, but its becoming more and more frequent. Thank you. All of your guy's wisdom has really helped me grow as a tortoise owner, as well as keeping him safe and getting the right treatment for him. Don't know what I would do without this forum!!!
 

Clueless Tortoise

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At this point I'd advise seeing a different Vet. If your unable to get him to a Vet, unfortunately, I don't think your going to have a happy conclusion to this thread.
Thank you for the honesty. I really appreciate it. I'm looking for a new exotic vet in this area, but im afraid this vet is the only exotic vet around. I'm not going to give up. I'd do anything for my little guy and he is a big part of my life. I'll continue to search.
 

Toddrickfl1

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Thank you for the honesty. I really appreciate it. I'm looking for a new exotic vet in this area, but im afraid this vet is the only exotic vet around. I'm not going to give up. I'd do anything for my little guy and he is a big part of my life. I'll continue to search.
If anything I'd ask the Vet you saw about the medication @zovick mentioned and if he can administer it asap.
 

Minority2

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im measuring all of it. substrate, air temp, heating mats. I'm doing all of the right things. I meant to say treats, not threats. I was talking about his diet. I'm trying to explain that i'm doing everything I can and I want to know what others think this issue is. I'm concerned and he is in a great environment and is well taken care of, but he's sick, and idk what is going on. I was asking if anyone knows or thinks they know what these symptoms mean, (example: Respiratory infection)

I accidentally wrote threats instead of treats in the last post. What specific treats are you feeding it?

You haven't answered any of the questions I've given you. I need specific numbers for different daytime and night temperature zones as I've supplied you with in my previous posts. I need humidity levels, again, daytime and nighttime to get a better idea of what the climate is and what it could possibly feel like for the tortoise that's inside the kiddie pool/open enclosure. You saying the tortoise is in a great environment without telling me exactly what you've changed in the last couple days since I've written to you makes it more confusing because members aren't getting up to date and or accurate information needed in order to give you the safest avenue of "suggested" care.

Respiratory infection usually goes away when the temperatures in the enclosure, bumped up, and kept to the specified temperatures I wrote in one of my previous posts. And yes the tortoise can possibly get worse even if the temperatures are correct, however, that can also mean there may be different things that are happening which is causing the tortoise to not be able to shed off that infection. Something may possibly be preventing the tortoise from recovering from the last time it started forming bubbles.

Your enclosure issues, if still left uncorrected, will not go away even if the tortoise were to go to receive antibiotics. For example, if temperatures remain too low for your tortoise it's going to possibly get much worse for them. This is why members like myself are constantly asking about temperature, humidity numbers, and how important it is to buy and use accurate equipment to check them.

If the tortoise actually receives any injections you'll going to need to provide an even slightly warmer environment; 85F daytime and nighttime heat throughout the enclosure along with a 100F basking spot 12-14 hours for them in order to help aid in their recovery. The negative side affects (examples: inactivity, loss of appetite) of some vet treatments such as antibiotics injections can last for months at a time. That means your enclosure or separate quarantine enclosure needs to absolutely be kept in the right temperature levels at all time.
 

Clueless Tortoise

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If anything I'd ask the Vet you saw about the medication @zovick mentioned and if he can administer it asap.
I actually just got off the phone with the vet. He was supposed to call me this morning but never did. I called them just now and was told he wasn't going to see me tomorrow like he was supposed to, and may not even come in until the next day. I was referred to another vet, who referred me to another vet, and finally found one. I spent my whole lunch break on the phone with multiple vets. I was on the phone for at least a good hour and a half. I finally found a well known exotic vet who i booked an appointment with for tomorrow early afternoon. They specialize in reptiles and exotic animals and will give him meds and a diagnosis tomorrow. I now have to skip my zoom meeting to drive to a different state. That's how far the next vet is. Fantastic. But as long as my little guy is getting what he needs, i'd drive across the country for him.
 

Clueless Tortoise

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@Minority2 I know you mean well, but I have said multiple times numbers for the temps and the humidity and everything in between. This is more than just temp issues. I'm doing everything I can and am getting quite frustrated because nothing is working. Please read all of the message to understand what I have done. I will not explain it again. I'm not trying to be mean, I just have a lot on my plate. I physically do no have the room to give him a bigger enclosure at this time. I have two other dogs, as well as classes, appointments, more medications with my other dog because he has a yeast infection in his ear, and plenty of other things to deal with, along side my tortoise, and now driving to ANOTHER STATE to get him to the correct vet. Please stop asking about temps. I have answered those questions.
 
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