HELP 4 Malnourished Improperly Cared For Young Tortoise

[erba]

I have had outdoor rescued CA desert tortoise and a Russian tortoise (adults) for many years. My neighbor last year for Xmas bought his young daughter 2 baby tortoises. She wants a kitten now. So he kindly offered to give us the tortoises (I think they are Russian or Greek) and the complete set up so I agreed thinking it would be a good pet for my 16 yo son who enjoys animals. I didn't look closely at the tortoises at the time (it didn't occur to me they were sick) and we brought them home yesterday and noticed that they were lethargic and malnourished. YIKES! I'm also guessing that maybe insufficient humidity and heat too. I've not had indoor juvenile tortoises before so I'm learning.

The set up we inherited is a large glass aquarium with completely screened top with a single heating lamp and a UV light bar. The tortoises are about 2.5" long -- seem way to little and to young to be sold to an inexperienced family -- neighbor said they have not grown much since last year - yikes again. I bought a thermometer and humidity gauge as well as a small Zoomed under tank heater mounted to the side near the heat lamp to create a hot & warm zone. So I got the temp up to 82 but the humidity is 20% (I live in So Cal/LA so its warm and dry now). I also bought some moss and moistened that so they are now underneath the moss near the warm zone. I left one side cool and dry. Also put in some cuttlebone.
Q: should I cover the top to help increase humidity.
Q: other environment suggestions

Their eyes are shut and aren't eating. They did seem to take a little drink when I gave them a bath. The legs seem thin and not plump and squishy like typical. I can't tell if they need to be warmer to entice them to eat.
Q: suggestions to feed them -- I'm thinking I need an intervention. My tortoise doc is closed today and he's not cheap -- he's the best but I can't afford it right now (have medical bills of my own). I'm going to go see if I can find the ZooMed nutrition jump start stuff in the tube (can't remember what its call -- used for tortroises coming out of hibernation). wondering should I mash up some meal worms and try to force feed?
Q: shut eyes? could it be something else -- calcium deficiency? disease? there's no discharge.

Ugh -- so my simple adoption has now turned into a rescue mission! Any words of wisdom is welcomed! I'll try to upload photos later.

 

[wellington]

Post a pic so we can give them a positive ID. The basking spot needs to be 95-100 and a good over all temp is 80, at least until we know for sure what they are. Give them a warm soak daily and a good proper diet. Need the pics though. Oh, and they will need their own enclosure.

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Erba, and welcome to the Forum!

This is a desperate situation. If you can't get those eyes open they won't eat and they will die.

First of all, before I forget, is YOUR desert tortoise kept separately from the Russian? Mixing tortoise species is never a good idea. and now on to the problem:

We really need to know what the new tortoises are. Can you post a picture?

Keep them in the aquarium as it's much easier to have a good temperature in a closed, glass box. Fix the lights/heat so it is 85F inside the aquarium. You'll need to cover the top to keep the cool air from the house out. I wouldn't trust any of the equipment they gave you. The babies desperately need a GOOD UVB light to go along with the calcium-rich foods you feed them. Choose from one of these two types:



The fluorescent tube is cheaper, but doesn't provide heat, while the Powersun is UVB and heat in one fixture. If you look around, you can buy the fluorescent tube with a reflector so you don't have to worry how to mount it.

Every day get those babies out and place them in a bowl of half and half warm water and Gerber strained carrot baby food. The carrot food has the highest concentration of vitamin A and this will get the eyes open, along with getting a bit of nutrition into them, even if they don't drink the water. Leave them soaking for at least a half hour, and be watchful to make sure they don't tip upside down. You should notice their eyes opening by themselves after about three days.

So, to recap - heat up their aquarium to 85F overall day and night, and soak them daily in carrot baby food water. After three days, when the eyes are open, you can start offering food. They might not recognize the food you offer, so try to find out from the previous keeper what they used to feed them, and offer that for the time being.

 

[KevinGG]

And in addition to Yvonne's tips, make sure the substrate in the enclosure is damp. Dry substrate will only add to the eye problems

 

[erba]

Thanks for all the wisdom and tips. I will terrible for these little guys and hope it's not too late.

I will move them to the warmer area of the tank asap and tomorrow see if I can get them a better heat source. The light source is 15watt T8 Tropical 25 bulb which I think is just UVB. I like the powersun which I use occasionally for my desert tortoise on less than optimal days (I'm near the coast and dampness is sometimes a concern). And , yes, the desert and russian are separate.

Carrots! Great -- will get some asap and start soaking. The neighbor was only feeding meal worms from what I know. I offered meal worms, chopped dandelions and kale from the backyard (we use no pesticides and I grow dandelions for my other tortoises) and they seemed interested as the mouths opened a few times but they didn't take bite and moved away.

I will cover the top to increase the humidity -- what level should I aim for -- I see different recommendations and obviously don't want any mold.

Will post some pics soon. Feeding time at the zoo here for my 2 legged creatures!

 

[sibi]

Hi and welcome. Yvonne is one of the most experienced members here who deals with rescues in serious trouble.Do everything she suggested, but instead of soaking them for 30 minutes a day, I would increase the time to an hour twice daily, making sure the water stays warm all the time. If after a day or so, they open their eyes, you can try feeding them and see if they bite. These torts really need to see a vet so that their fecal matter can be tested for parasites, and they can be examined for metabolic bone disease (MBD). As Yvonne said, first thing is to get them to open their eyes.

 

[Yvonne G]

Meal worms...that must mean you have box turtles. The carrot soaks and temperature of the hospital tank is good for box turtles too, but once you get their eyes open, diet is quite different. So we need to see pictures for sure, so we can give you the right information.

 

[erba]

Thank you Yvonne, Kevin, Wellington & Sibi -- I feel better knowing I've got some moral support here.

Got the carrot bath going and doing it double boiler style to keep the bath warm, towel on top to help retain heat and moisture and a desk lamp that I lower to create some top heat. Good news is one of the tortoises seems to be taking a drink and sorta looks like he's trying to open his eyes and is actively moving around the bath. The other guy who seems sicker is opening his eyes a bit, maybe taking a drink and moving around a bit -- funny, he looked like he had a hiccup or two. So a glimmer of hope for tonight.

After a luxurious hour in a warm bath of carrot baby food and food, a dunk to clean off the carrot and into a warm moist bed of moss. I stuck is a measuring cup with hot water to bring up the humidity in the air and covered the tank with a towel. time for bed for all.

Here's the pic -- I thought they looked like greek tortoise but I'm no expert. As you can see is lighter than the other. I'm curious to get opinions on what they are as the neighbor was not sure -- he was feeding meal worms so I'm curious if they are box turtles.

Open to any other tips to get these little guys healthy again. Thanks again all.

 

[SarahChelonoidis]

Looks like baby box turtles to me. Keeping them like Greeks would do them no favours - they need a lot more moisture then Mediterranean tortoises. Thankfully, they're not Greeks, because the all mealworm diet would have been pretty ill-matched. Box turtles eat animal protein, so you're in luck.

Sounds like your set-up is going in the right direction. Daily baths are certainly in order. A humid habitat with a shallow water container (plant saucer is ideal) they can get in whenever they want is needed. Try earthworms - gut-loaded on good stuff or really, really lightly dusted with vitamins. You'll probably have a hard time getting them to take veggies right away, but give fruit ago - cantaloupe, strawberries, papaya, prickly pear cactus fruit may be tolerated.

 

[cmacusa3]

Box turtles

 

[erba]

Not tortoises? Hmm that's ok -- we like box turtles too. I had some when I was a kid.

So here's the update -- they like the warm carrot baths and have done they twice a day. Seem to be taking a drink or two. One turtle is more animated and has eyes open. The other guy still has not opened eyes but moves around some. Neither seem interested in food yet.

I've got the temperature up to about 85- 90 and the humidity up to 35-45. They seem to like it under the moss that I dampened some. But they have not ventured out from under it.

The bathtub they had it too tall for them so I will get them a better pool.

I've got mini meal worms but will try earthworms if I can get them. Will try the fruit too and I've got spineless cactus to try.

THANKs again for all the wisdom. Keep bringing it on!!

Karen

 

[Yvonne G]

It usually takes about three days of 30 minute daily carrot soaks to get those eyes open

 

[erba]

It usually takes about three days of 30 minute daily carrot soaks to get those eyes open

good! then there is still hope!! thanks again for your wisdom. I'll keep at it as I'm determined for these guys to make it!

 

[erba]

Update:
the lighter colored shell one is eating and eyes opened fine. the darker one still has eyes closed and I am continuing carrot baths for an hour twice a day.

thanks again all for help.

 

[GingerLove]

You are doing a splendid job, they've come to a wonderful home! They are both cuties and I'm so glad that one has his eyes open. I don't know much about box turtles as I've only got a tortoise, but trust all the advice above. Are their shells squishy at all? The best of luck to you, and welcome to the forum. Keep us updated!

 

[Yvonne G]

Make sure they are warm enough. They need that warmth in order to digest their food.

 

[TammyJ]

They are adorable and very needy little creatures and you are doing great stuff for them! All the very best for their recovery!

 

[erba]

UPDATE: Good news!! Both little guys are well. The light colored one was eating as soon as his eyes opened. He enjoyed his feast of mashed strawberries, finely chopped home grown organic kale and wiggly meal worms with a dusting of multivitamin and calcium.

The dark colored guy had me worried -- over a week of carrot baths and had not opened his eyes although the swelling was going down. I made an appointment to see the reptile vet but we had to wait 3 days due to the T-day holiday. Fortunately the day before T-day, his eyes were open and was able to eat! He enjoyed the same feast as his friend although his appetite not quite as robust. I think he was more dehydrated as well as he spent a great deal of time in his "pond" just sitting and leisure dunking his head in for long drinks.

We are not quite of the woods yet but we are heading in the right direction. Thank you again for all the words of wisdom -- I am confident in saying that you all helped save these turtles little lives. I am hoping their past care has not permanently damaged their development.

Tweaking their home to find the optimum balance of heat and moisture, creating a variety of basking and hiding spots, figuring how often to feed, etc.

THANKS again!

 

[MPRC]

Glad to hear they are doing well, but we need fresh photos!

 

[Moozillion]

What a FANTASTIC turtle parent you are!!!!!!!
GREAT JOB at saving not just 1, but 2 little lives!!!!!!