Heating / Lighting Beginner Help

[Ris]

I'm one more step from getting my first tortoise! I've been slowly getting the supplies I'll need, and I'm just about to buy one of my own, though I have a few last minute, specific questions.


I have the repti basking spot lamps for heating, 75w (it was a combo that came with a day and red night heating bulbs) and the reptisun 10.0 UVB bulb, 13w. Will the one UVB bulb be enough, or should I get a second one? The temperatures under the basking lamp reach the 90F's while the cooler end is in the 70F's. However, the temperatures only read either 90 or 70; it's not creating much of a heating gradient. I'm thinking it could be a problem with the thermometer I'm using, as I currently have one that sticks to the side of the table. But if it isn't, how should I go about correcting this?

So far, I've made a tortoise table that's about 4ft. x 2ft. The substrate is a 50/50 sand and topsoil mix, with a tarp lining the inside of the table. I plan to get a Greek Tortoise, and want to make sure everything is ready for when I bring him home.

 

[Yvonne G]

Please read this thread before you buy any more supplies (or the tortoise):

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/

I don't like those combo fixtures. The dome is too narrow. I like to use the dome that's either 10 or 12" wide. Also, quite a few of the folks on here don't like to use red bulbs at night, preferring to use a ceramic heat emitter for night. You can try it, though to see if it will work for your tortoise. Is that Reptisun bulb a coil shaped bulb or a long tube type fluorescent?

The best way to check the temperature is with the infra red thermometer. They're not very expensive.

We have a very good Greek tortoise care sheet here:

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/greek-tortoise-testudo-graeca-care-sheet-overview.87146/

 

[Tom]

I'm one more step from getting my first tortoise! I've been slowly getting the supplies I'll need, and I'm just about to buy one of my own, though I have a few last minute, specific questions.


I have the repti basking spot lamps for heating, 75w (it was a combo that came with a day and red night heating bulbs) and the reptisun 10.0 UVB bulb, 13w. Will the one UVB bulb be enough, or should I get a second one? The temperatures under the basking lamp reach the 90F's while the cooler end is in the 70F's. However, the temperatures only read either 90 or 70; it's not creating much of a heating gradient. I'm thinking it could be a problem with the thermometer I'm using, as I currently have one that sticks to the side of the table. But if it isn't, how should I go about correcting this?

So far, I've made a tortoise table that's about 4ft. x 2ft. The substrate is a 50/50 sand and topsoil mix, with a tarp lining the inside of the table. I plan to get a Greek Tortoise, and want to make sure everything is ready for when I bring him home.

Hello and welcome Ris. So glad you found us. It looks like you've been researching and you've found all the old out-dated incorrect info. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but every single thing you've got there is the wrong stuff. I don't mean to bum you out, but it is darn lucky you are finding out BEFORE you brought a tortoise home.

I'll hit it all in order:
1. The 75 watt bulb might be okay, if its not a "spot" bulb".
2. The deep dome double fixtures are no good because you need the different bulbs in different areas and at different heights sometimes.
3. The red bulbs are no good. Tortoises need it dark at night.
4. 2x4' is too small for a Greek unless you are starting with a small baby.
5. Soil is not a good substrate because its messy and you can't know what its made of. We just had a thread this morning showing human sewage in composted top soil.
6. Sand is no good because its an impaction risk and a possible skin and eye irritant.
7. You are correct that the stick on thermometers are not reliable or accurate.
8. Those coil type cfl UV bulbs sometimes burn reptile eyes and should not be used.

Here is a post I made for another member outlining what is needed for heating and lighting. If your house stays above 65F at night, you won't need night heat for a greek.

" Let me break down the heating and lighting thing. You need three or four elements:
1. Heat. During the day this is best accomplished with 65 watt flood bulbs from the hardware store set on digital timers. These also give some light. Move them higher or lower to get the basking temp under them correct. I buy them in 6 packs, so if they burn out I always have a spare on hand.
2. Light. Sometimes the basking bulb and ambient room light are enough. If not, use a tube style florescent strip light form the hardware store. Run it on the same timer as the heat lamps. Try to get a bulb in the 5000-6500K color range. The more common 2500K color range bulbs look yellowish.
3. Ambient temp maintenance and night heat. Tortoises need it dark at night, but still warm. This is best accomplished with the use of a CHE in a ceramic based fixture. Get the 11" ceramic based domes from Home Depot for all your heat lamps.
4. UV. Best to sun them for an hour two or more times a week. Its okay to skip a few weeks over winter and this will do no harm. Since you live in the frozen North (Okay, Midwest, but its a figure of speech…), you will need to provide some artificial UV. Several options for this:
a. Use a mercury vapor bulb, like the power sun for your basking bulb. Use this in the Home Depot fixture I mentioned, not in a small pet store dome or deep dome. Replace it every fall.
b. Use a long tube type 10.0 florescent bulb. These MUST be mounted no more than 10-12" from the tortoise to be effective.
c. Get an Arcadia 12% HO bulb from lightyourreptiles.com. These are great, but they make a lot of UV. Mount it at least 18" and as much as 26" away from the tortoise and put it on its own timer for only about 4 hours a day."

Hope all this helps. Ask for clarification for all the conflicting info.

 

[Ris]

Hello and welcome Ris. So glad you found us. It looks like you've been researching and you've found all the old out-dated incorrect info. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but every single thing you've got there is the wrong stuff. I don't mean to bum you out, but it is darn lucky you are finding out BEFORE you brought a tortoise home.

I'll hit it all in order:
1. The 75 watt bulb might be okay, if its not a "spot" bulb".
2. The deep dome double fixtures are no good because you need the different bulbs in different areas and at different heights sometimes.
3. The red bulbs are no good. Tortoises need it dark at night.
4. 2x4' is too small for a Greek unless you are starting with a small baby.
5. Soil is not a good substrate because its messy and you can't know what its made of. We just had a thread this morning showing human sewage in composted top soil.
6. Sand is no good because its an impaction risk and a possible skin and eye irritant.
7. You are correct that the stick on thermometers are not reliable or accurate.
8. Those coil type cfl UV bulbs sometimes burn reptile eyes and should not be used.

Here is a post I made for another member outlining what is needed for heating and lighting. If your house stays above 65F at night, you won't need night heat for a greek.

" Let me break down the heating and lighting thing. You need three or four elements:
1. Heat. During the day this is best accomplished with 65 watt flood bulbs from the hardware store set on digital timers. These also give some light. Move them higher or lower to get the basking temp under them correct. I buy them in 6 packs, so if they burn out I always have a spare on hand.
2. Light. Sometimes the basking bulb and ambient room light are enough. If not, use a tube style florescent strip light form the hardware store. Run it on the same timer as the heat lamps. Try to get a bulb in the 5000-6500K color range. The more common 2500K color range bulbs look yellowish.
3. Ambient temp maintenance and night heat. Tortoises need it dark at night, but still warm. This is best accomplished with the use of a CHE in a ceramic based fixture. Get the 11" ceramic based domes from Home Depot for all your heat lamps.
4. UV. Best to sun them for an hour two or more times a week. Its okay to skip a few weeks over winter and this will do no harm. Since you live in the frozen North (Okay, Midwest, but its a figure of speech…), you will need to provide some artificial UV. Several options for this:
a. Use a mercury vapor bulb, like the power sun for your basking bulb. Use this in the Home Depot fixture I mentioned, not in a small pet store dome or deep dome. Replace it every fall.
b. Use a long tube type 10.0 florescent bulb. These MUST be mounted no more than 10-12" from the tortoise to be effective.
c. Get an Arcadia 12% HO bulb from lightyourreptiles.com. These are great, but they make a lot of UV. Mount it at least 18" and as much as 26" away from the tortoise and put it on its own timer for only about 4 hours a day."

Hope all this helps. Ask for clarification for all the conflicting info.

I guess it is very lucky I'm finding this out now instead of later, looks I've got a lot of fixing to do then. I do plan to start out with a baby.

I'll change the substrate and lighting right away (I was using the care sheet on the forums, and it lists sand and soil there) Would the cypress mulch be a better choice?
The 75 watt bulb is actually a spot bulb. Could I use a mercury bulb for both heating and UV, or would I also need an additional heat source? What wattage would I need to get? And what wattage for the CHE?

 

[ZEROPILOT]

You have a UVB bulb? Not a tube?
Is it a compact florescent bulb?

 

[Ris]

You have a UVB bulb? Not a tube?
Is it a compact florescent bulb?

Yes, it fits in the lamps that I have currently. I'll attach a picture of it, since I don't really know how to explain it. It doesn't look like a regular bulb, but it doesn't look like any of the coil bulbs I've seen either

 

[ZEROPILOT]

That is the type of bulb that should not be used with a tortoise or turtle because they can and do blind them.
I understand that every pet shop sells them.

 

[Tom]

I guess it is very lucky I'm finding this out now instead of later, looks I've got a lot of fixing to do then. I do plan to start out with a baby.

I'll change the substrate and lighting right away (I was using the care sheet on the forums, and it lists sand and soil there) Would the cypress mulch be a better choice?
The 75 watt bulb is actually a spot bulb. Could I use a mercury bulb for both heating and UV, or would I also need an additional heat source? What wattage would I need to get? And what wattage for the CHE?

Cypress is okay, but it would be a distant third choice for me. Coco coir works best for little Testudo babies, and fine grade orchid bark would be my second choice.

Yes on the MVB. That can be your sole light and heat source if the room temp is no lower than about 68-70 most of the time. Just put it on a timer and adjust the height to get the correct basking temperature under it. If you are one of those people who lets their house drop to 50 or 60 degrees in winter, you'll need to add some night heat with a ceramic heating element set on a thermostat.

I typed this up for russians, but the care for Greeks is essentially the same:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/russian-tortoise-care-sheet.80698/

These might offer some useful tips too:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread...or-other-herbivorous-tortoise-species.107734/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/

 

[Tom]

Zeropilot is absolutely correct on NOT using that cfl bulb. They should be taken off the market, but unsuspecting people with good intentions keep on buying them, not knowing the danger they pose. We usually say "coil" bulbs, but its really any compact florescent lamp.

 

[Ris]

I can't seem to find the lamp domes you mentioned for the MVB and CHE. I've checked on home depot's website, but I don't see anything that resembles the reptile lamps.