Having a hard time identifying sub-species.

gurgleblaster

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We got our pair a year ago and were told they were "Herman's" now I have educated myself more thoroughly. I am still having trouble identifying their subspecies as they exhibit traits from western Hermann's but I have my doubts. Included is photos of the female as I was just bathing her. I'll post pictures of the male later if necessary, for reference the point of my thumb to pointer finger included in a photo is exactly 7 3/4 inch making them about just over 6inch carapace. IMG_20200810_163332769.jpg
IMG_20200810_163607429.jpg IMG_20200810_163346445.jpg
 

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zovick

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We got our pair a year ago and were told they were "Herman's" now I have educated myself more thoroughly. I am still having trouble identifying their subspecies as they exhibit traits from western Hermann's but I have my doubts. Included is photos of the female as I was just bathing her. I'll post pictures of the male later if necessary, for reference the point of my thumb to pointer finger included in a photo is exactly 7 3/4 inch making them about just over 6inch carapace. View attachment 303019
View attachment 303016 View attachment 303017
The size of 6" is a bit large for most Western Hermann's Tortoises. Also, I do not see the light spot under the eye which is a characteristic of W. Hermann's Tortoise. Another clue would be where you got them and how much they cost.

Most W. Hermann's are available only from private breeders and are not as inexpensive as are the Eastern Hermann's Tortoises.
 

gurgleblaster

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Charlotte
The size of 6" is a bit large for most Western Hermann's Tortoises. Also, I do not see the light spot under the eye which is a characteristic of W. Hermann's Tortoise. Another clue would be where you got them and how much they cost.

Most W. Hermann's are available only from private breeders and are not as inexpensive as are the Eastern Hermann's Tortoises.
I have other pics that high light the light spot she had a bit of smudge from digging and I didn't want to scrub to hard on her face🤣

Seller wasn't sure either, it was a pet store that sells repts don't want to fault them because they do a lot for the reptile community and they do care about their animals. It's just hard to know everything about every species

While 6 might be at the upper end of westerns it's small for easterns. Maybe bastard?
 

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zovick

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Both have distinct keyhole on 5th scute light colored claws. At the same time they are a bit big and are more drab compared to most westerns but brighter than most easterns. It's Insanity!!
Now I can see the light spots. There is yet another trait of Western's which is not present on yours. Namely strong black bands down either side of the plastron from the gular scutes to the anal scutes. The pattern on your tortoise's plastron is broken up, so perhaps as you say, they may be intergrades between the two subspecies.

Have you looked at this site: https://www.hermannihaven.com/

Perhaps by reading the info on the site above and having the tortoises in hand you will be able to make a better decision as to what they are. If that doesn't help, email Chris your photos and ask him his opinion. I'd be interested to learn what he thinks if you do that.
 

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