Hatchling Sulcata Surprise...Not eating. Now what?

[darlingtiffy]

Hi Guys! After our gopher tortoise adventure we decided to go for it and get an actual Sulcata. My husband and 9 year old son surprised me today with the tiniest hatchling. I think he still has his egg tooth! I have bronchitis and wasn't part of the adventure so I didn't get to ask all the questions. Don't get me wrong my hubs did good. He got the basic details. They were let out to forage in the backyard, had calcium supplements, a cuttlebone to gnaw on, natural uv light, and were soaked regularly. He did not, however, get the types of forage they were eating or the feeding schedule.

We've had this baby home for 8-9 hours and he has not really eaten yet. We've got fresh forage varieties from our yard in his enclosure and we've taken him out 3 times to get some sunshine and nibble. He's eaten a few bites, but that's it. He's mostly just in his log sleeping. If we take him out of the log he's pretty active and will wander around, but I'm worried. I was not expecting a tort this young. He's just so tiny! Help!!

 

[wellington]

What are you using for light, heat, what the temps, all over and baskimg? What's the humidity? It needs to be in a closed chamber and soaked daily in warm water.

 

[darlingtiffy]

What are you using for light, heat, what the temps, all over and baskimg? What's the humidity? It needs to be in a closed chamber and soaked daily in warm water.

I meant it when I said I was surprised today. We have a little tikes sandbox (for the cuteness and irony factor) for the enclosure with eco earth, a habbihut log with zoo med moss, and small food and water bowls, but I didn't have the UV light or any other accouterments. So for today he has a heating pad under a very thin layer of damp ecoearth mixed with wet moss under his log to keep it warm and moist. The pad extends out and around the log a ways so he can sit and warm up outside the log as well if needed. It sits in front of our large sliding door (that isn't used) so it's half in the sunshine as well.

We intended for our tort to spend a lot of time outside in our Florida humidity to get sunshine and forage, as we have a lovely and safe outdoor enclosure, but he's too tiny for that yet so I'm scrambling. Did I mention I have bronchitis? And I spent much of this evening at the er?

 

[Minority2]

I meant it when I said I was surprised today. We have a little tikes sandbox (for the cuteness and irony factor) for the enclosure with eco earth, a habbihut log with zoo med moss, and small food and water bowls, but I didn't have the UV light or any other accouterments. So for today he has a heating pad under a very thin layer of damp ecoearth mixed with wet moss under his log to keep it warm and moist. The pad extends out and around the log a ways so he can sit and warm up outside the log as well if needed. It sits in front of our large sliding door (that isn't used) so it's half in the sunshine as well.

We intended for our tort to spend a lot of time outside in our Florida humidity to get sunshine and forage, as we have a lovely and safe outdoor enclosure, but he's too tiny for that yet so I'm scrambling. Did I mention I have bronchitis? And I spent much of this evening at the er?

What type of heating pad is that? Generic pet branded heating brands are notorious for burning the under-shell of tortoises are well as other reptiles from repeated use. Kane heat mats and Reptile basic heat panels would be the safest options if you're planning to use heating mats.

https://kanemfg.com/products/pets/pet-heat-mats/
http://www.reptilebasics.com/rbi-radiant-heat-panels

A tortoise that still has their egg tooth would be about a few weeks old. That's quite young to have them spend the majority of their time outdoors. That barely hatched tortoise would still require a basking light, backup UVB strip fixture, and night time heating even if you're planning to use the sun as their main uvb needs.

Here are some links to some care sheets on Sulcatas. Have your family go through them:
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/for-those-who-have-a-young-sulcata.76744/
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-raise-a-healthy-sulcata-or-leopard-version-2-0.79895/
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/african-spurred-tortoise-sulcata-care-sheet.52524/
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/sulcata-diet-sheet.64290/

 

[darlingtiffy]

I was totally not expecting a tort that young. Apparently, when they looked at all the available torts, that one went right up to my son and he "fell in love." Which left me scrambling to care for a younger and smaller tort than I expected.

I was reading the post by Tom that talked about care and have ordered a 60w ceramic heat lamp and clamp lamp to use with a lovely flat rock instead of the pad. That was just a last minute "oh crap" how do I keep him warm for now solution. I'm also adding a plastic humid hide to use instead of the log. He can keep the log hide, just not for humidity purposes.

My main concern right now is the lack of eating. I know he's warm and moist under the log, and he's getting out for enough sunshine, but the not eating has me worried. He's really only taken a few bites since we've brought him home. With him being so small, at what point do I panic?

 

[Minority2]

I was totally not expecting a tort that young. Apparently, when they looked at all the available torts, that one went right up to my son and he "fell in love." Which left me scrambling to care for a younger and smaller tort than I expected.

I was reading the post by Tom that talked about care and have ordered a 60w ceramic heat lamp and clamp lamp to use with a lovely flat rock instead of the pad. That was just a last minute "oh crap" how do I keep him warm for now solution. I'm also adding a plastic humid hide to use instead of the log. He can keep the log hide, just not for humidity purposes.

My main concern right now is the lack of eating. I know he's warm and moist under the log, and he's getting out for enough sunshine, but the not eating has me worried. He's really only taken a few bites since we've brought him home. With him being so small, at what point do I panic?

Temperatures and humidity levels are crucial. This is why answering @wellington's question would give better insight. Basking light temperatures aid in digestion. High humidity levels promote healthy shell growth. Pictures of their enclosure and the tortoise are also useful references.

1. Is it being overly handled? Tortoises take time to adapt to new owners and environments.
2. Is your family giving that tortoise daily soakings?
3. Again, are the temperatures and humidity levels correct? Zoo-med and similar bargain type thermometer and hygrometers are not accurate. Buy weather branded (ambient weather/Accurite) readers instead.

 

[wellington]

Wow, it was a surprise and blindside lol. So sorry you are having health issues along with this new surprise.
Bring a hatching, it needs temps no lower then 80. Heating pads are not a good beat source for little ones. The sooner you can get the proper Heating, lighting, etc I think you will see some eating. Depending on how big the sand box is, you might want too get a tote box that's smaller so he has less room to have to travel to find food, etc. You could then use the sand box for when he needs a bigger enclosure. Heat and humidity would be easier in a taller sided tote box too. You could also section off part of the sand box if it's a lot bigger then what the tote would be. I believe the totes are about 1 1/2'x 3'.
Do what you can for the changes as,soon as you can, and let us know if he starts eating. You can try some spring mix or other grocery greens in case that's what he was used too eating. Once he starts eating good then you can slowly switch him to a more natural diet if you have the right things growing in your yard.
Hope you feel better soon.

 

[Gillian M]

Welcome to the forum.

 

[darlingtiffy]

Thank you all for the info!! He ate a couple bites this morning on his breakfast forage, but not a lot. I changed out the little food dish to a flat plate with a ton of forage- different kinds of grass, dandelions, asters, something that looks like dollar weed but isn't and some other green leafy things he took a couple bites of this morning, in his enclosure. It's right in the traffic path he takes when he's wandering, so he has to walk over it or at least see and smell it. It will be changed to a slate tile soon. We're picking up spring mix today as well. He is getting 30+ minutes to forage and get sunlight 3-4 times a day and is being soaked 2 or more times in warm water due to the improper set up and heating pad starting today. He only came home around 2:30 yesterday, so I have no idea what he received prior to being picked up.

I have attached some pics of my baby, Tiny Tim, and his turtle sandbox enclosure. I am adding a plastic humid hide later today and his lights and rock should be here tomorrow or the next day. The ecoearth under the log, and over the pad, is moist so it's warm and humid under there. One end is blocked off with ecoearth to simulate it being half buried, and it's covered in zoomed moss to help keep in the heat from the pad and give him a fun thing to climb. It is in front of a large sliding door that has sunlight majority of the day as well, but will be moved to under a stand we're building for our fish tank that will help keep in heat and allow for hanging the heat lamps.

Please don't judge, I know it's not great, but I'm working on it. It's a little sparse as I was unprepared for a full time indoor tort. I'm going to plant some grass and things and get some more fun stuff for him. I just want to make sure he's okay until we get everything perfect and him not eating has me really worried.

 

[Maro2Bear]

Greetings

Make sure you read up on all of the great info here in this link:
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-raise-a-healthy-sulcata-or-leopard-version-2-0.79895/

I realize you just got this hatchling “by surprise” but it’s really critical to get your entire ambient temps up and beyond 80f or your baby won’t eat or want to eat or digest it’s food. Humidity is critical at this stage too. Daily soakings too!

So, you need to work on maintaing the critical temps, the heat, the lighting, soaking......etc.

Good luck, keep tweaking your enclosure.

 

[darlingtiffy]

So we have made major changes to Timmy's enclosure. He is now in a very large storage tote with a deep layer of damp ecoearth, a zoomed moss covered burrow on the cool side, live plants- that were scavenged from the yard and will be replaced, a lovely water bowel, basking rock, and a humid hide made from a walmart dishwashing tub per the care article. I'll try to get a picture later today. Because we live in Florida, and because our heat lamp is not going to be here until tonight, he is outside in the heat and humidity and LOVING it. We have eating and poo! We put the tote lid over half the hide (the cool side) and the other is in direct sunlight. (the warm side) He is never in it if we aren't home, but there is still chicken wire on top and the tote lid to protect him from anything that can eat him. He is definitely perkier and looking more sully-like the longer he's in it.

Our nighttime plan is to move the tote inside in a a/c vent free room. We're putting the tote on a heating pad and using the CHE lamp for the tote to help keep the residual heat from outside and keep the temps constant.

 

[darlingtiffy]

I posted the update and forgot the question. lol. I had my husband get in contact with the person who we got Tim from. I am concerned with what Timmy was receiving prior to us taking him, because he had some runny poo twice on the way home (hour drive) and didn't seem perky when we I saw him the first time. When asked what he feeds he said all kinds of mixed veggies and that he let them out to roam the yard for grass. He said he left the UV on 24 hrs and just had lots of hides for them. He soaked them in the bathroom sink, I think, but am not sure how often or of water temp. And I don't know what substrate he used.

The poo I saw today from Tim was semi solid, but also runny and some suck on his tail. It's definitely not okay tort poo. He was eating, but not enough, the last 2 days due to the enclosure issues, so I expected it to be a little off, but I'm worried he may have already been puny and then had the heat and humidity issues with us. I am slightly panicked. Any advice or support??

 

[Emily Contreras]

I posted the update and forgot the question. lol. I had my husband get in contact with the person who we got Tim from. I am concerned with what Timmy was receiving prior to us taking him, because he had some runny poo twice on the way home (hour drive) and didn't seem perky when we I saw him the first time. When asked what he feeds he said all kinds of mixed veggies and that he let them out to roam the yard for grass. He said he left the UV on 24 hrs and just had lots of hides for them. He soaked them in the bathroom sink, I think, but am not sure how often or of water temp. And I don't know what substrate he used.

The poo I saw today from Tim was semi solid, but also runny and some suck on his tail. It's definitely not okay tort poo. He was eating, but not enough, the last 2 days due to the enclosure issues, so I expected it to be a little off, but I'm worried he may have already been puny and then had the heat and humidity issues with us. I am slightly panicked. Any advice or support??

calm down, he is fine Mine didn't eat for atleast a week, his poop was baaaad. The poop depends on what they have been eating. (or what they haven't)
ANYWAYS! he should be fine if he starts to eat! And his humidity and heat wont bother him for a while, but it will start to if you dont get that soon.

 

[darlingtiffy]

Yesterday was like Timmy's best day! He LOVES his new enclosure and he was chowing down on his food. He ate so much!! He actually paced around sniffing and getting a little peeved when he couldn't find the food he wanted. It was adorable! And he had totally normal poo!! Such a mom thing to be excited over crap, but whatever.

Last night was longggg though. We need another heat lamp due to the length of the tote (boo) and it took me a while to get the heat lamp we have to warm up enough of the tote to keep the temps up. Luckily the damp eco earth and his rock kept in plenty of heat and even with the lamp issues it was staying close to 80. (77-80) He slept beautifully and enjoyed waking up to a warm water soak this morning before his tote moved back outside. I am so excited to see him happy and looking like a normal tort!

New enclosure pics attached. It's still a work in progress. I gotta do more plants (that won't wilt lol) and get a black tub for his humid hide. Just waiting for my Walmart to restock the black ones. My youngest son gave him the golf ball "cause he might want to play with it." Swoon.

 

[Big Charlie]

Congratulations on your new baby. Tortoises don't play. There is a discussion on the forum somewhere about balls. Some view it as stressful for the tortoise because they might perceive it as competition, i.e. another tortoise. We used to have a soccer ball in our yard (my tortoise was much older than yours) and Charlie tried to mate with it.

 

[darlingtiffy]

Congratulations on your new baby. Tortoises don't play. There is a discussion on the forum somewhere about balls. Some view it as stressful for the tortoise because they might perceive it as competition, i.e. another tortoise. We used to have a soccer ball in our yard (my tortoise was much older than yours) and Charlie tried to mate with it.

Thank you. I took it out right after. Just thought it was adorable.

I have some serious concerns still about this baby. He is so much perkier and eats like a champ, but some things just seem wrong. Thinking of starting a new thread to try and get answers.