Hatchling arrived at 60 Degrees

[Kipley]

A social media friend received a 2 month old hatchling via Fed Ex this morning. FB groups are telling her to get it to the vet, or telling her it will not survive. I'm trying to get her to join here, but in the mean time will ask advice for her. Hopefully she will comment and add to this later.

She got her Redfoot from a reputable redfoot breeder (has a very good reputation) who shipped it out Monday. It was supposed to arrive yesterday but got hung up for an extra day so the overnight shipping was 48 hours. When it arrived this morning she said the box was cold, the heat pack was cold and a laser temp on the baby's shell read 60 degrees! She said it was lethargic and the eyes were closed.

She soaked it in 85- 90 degree water for 45 minutes and within 3 minutes its eyes opened and within 10 minutes it was active and seemed fine. She kept it soaking and it had a good poop. She has it in an enclosed plastic tote with coir and orchid bark, humidity around 75% and she said the temps stay 85 - 80 using a CHE on one end. She said it ate some chopped greens a half a blueberry, explored half the enclosure and has been in a hide for the past 5 hours. The hide is filled with moist sphagnum. She has the CHE on a thermostat and is running an 18 inch T5 for UVB.

People have told her that getting that cold is pretty much doom for this little guy, but the breeder (whom she says feels awful about the shipping snafu) says he will recover from getting chilled as long as kept warm and humid.
She is worried sick and doesn't want to disturb him by poking around in the hide.

What advice to you fine folks have?

 

[Tony the Tort42]

Well I cant help much, but please tell her to remove the sphagnum. Many baby torts will eat it and get sick. I don't know much about the cold, but I do know that if he seems somewhat active and okay, he probably isn't "doomed". Tell them good luck!

 

[MikeT307]

Obviously hatchlings are more delegate than adults but I would think it would recover. People in the southern US keep redfoots outdoors year round I'm sure there are nights that creap in the 50s or 60s hopefully most of those keepers have heated sleep houses for cool nights. If the tortoise is healthy I would suspect it to recover once conditions are right.

Iguanas fall from trees in South FL when it gets too cold but the sun wakes them up and they run off after an hour or two of warming up.

 

[Blackdog1714]

Keep up the daily soaks and keep a close eye on the enclosure temps so they don’t get any cooler

 

[ZEROPILOT]

Just getting down to 60 isnt a death sentence to a Redfoot.
Mine live outdoors when it's in the upper 50s a few days during the winter.
The fact that the tortoise perked up right away and seems ok is a great sign. And it sounds like the tortoise has the correct lighting and care.
I would not assume that any permanent harm has been done, myself.
I left two Redfoot FACEBOOK groups due to the COOL AID being shared there.
This forum is much more helpful. Knowledge filled and less stressful.
Please at least suggest joining the TFO to your friends there.

LORD, why does anyone use FEDEX for anything? Much less delivery of live animals.
The only time FEDEX doesn't deliver late is when they deliver to the wrong address.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

Baby Redfoot sleep and hide for many hours a day. That should not worry you.
I'd also suggest getting rid of the moss and use 100% orchid bark.
(Moss is another FACEBOOK issue)

 

[Tony the Tort42]

Baby Redfoot sleep and hide for many hours a day. That should not worry you.
I'd also suggest getting rid of the moss and use 100% orchid bark.
(Moss is another FACEBOOK issue)

What exactly is wrong with coco? Just wondering, I actually use it for tony.?

 

[ZEROPILOT]

What exactly is wrong with coco? Just wondering, I actually use it for tony.?

I don't like the way it comes. Too fibrous. Pieces crumbling everywhere.
I just dump out the Orchid bark. Pour some water. Done.
I don't know if one is BETTER than the other. I just like the bark.
Coco coir is also ok.
Moss is not ok.
Redfoot do eat it. And it can be a digestion issue. So since it also isn't needed. I would not risk using it.

 

[Kipley]

Coco what? She is using coconut coir topped with orchid bark, she said she lined the hides with sphagnum. Just got through talking to her, she hasn't disturbed the hatchling, and won't until tomorrow.
She said she'll sign up for the forum tonight or in the morning. She thanked everyone for the reassurance that the tortoise will be ok.
She asked if she should get rid of the sphagnum in the hides? She was told to line them with it to keep them humid.
She said the hatchling is only one month old, not two, if that makes a difference.

 

[Tony the Tort42]

Coco what? She is using coconut coir topped with orchid bark, she said she lined the hides with sphagnum. Just got through talking to her, she hasn't disturbed the hatchling, and won't until tomorrow.
She said she'll sign up for the forum tonight or in the morning. She thanked everyone for the reassurance that the tortoise will be ok.
She asked if she should get rid of the sphagnum in the hides? She was told to line them with it to keep them humid.
She said the hatchling is only one month old, not two, if that makes a difference.

Yes she should remove the shagnum, even in the hide. it is not needed, and it can be quite harmful, so I reccomend she take it out. Thanks for taking the time to come here and help her! Also, can we see the enclosure? Just want to make sure.

 

[Tom]

Wow. The stupidity of the FB groups knows no bounds.

• 60 is not that cold. The baby will be totally fine. One month or two months of age makes no difference. They can survive a few days in the 30s. Certainly not a good thing to do, but not a death sentence.
• You said 80-85 on one end. It should be 80-85 all over.
• Remove the moss. It does nothing for humidity that wetting the substrate won't do.

 

[Tony the Tort42]

Sounds like the people your friend contacted should be ignored. Just thinking about it, it doesnt make sense for a baby tort to die from a 60 degree temp

 

[Kipley]

LoriAnn said that the Redfoot hatchling is doing well, pooping and eating, and spending most of the time in its hide.

She declined my invitation to join here, says it seems the info here is just as conflicting as the FB advice....

She was sent the Redfoot care guides from this forum by someone in the FB group, and set up her enclosure follwing the guidelines in the two care sheets. Both state to line the hide with sphagnum moss.
Yesterday I had texted her that she needed to pull the sphagnum moss from the hides.
This morning she pointed out that the care guides here DO NOT say that, and she said she doesn't need to be bombarded with more confusing and contradictory information and will stick with what the breeder is advising.
She thanked me for my help but said it was no longer required.

Oh well. <Shrugs> I'm sure the tort will do fine. LoriAnn is biologist and savvy about most things.

But I do understand her perception of confusing info from this list.
Do the care files need to have sphagnum removed from them?

 

[Tony the Tort42]

LoriAnn said that the Redfoot hatchling is doing well, pooping and eating, and spending most of the time in its hide.

She declined my invitation to join here, says it seems the info here is just as conflicting as the FB advice....

She was sent the Redfoot care guides from this forum by someone in the FB group, and set up her enclosure follwing the guidelines in the two care sheets. Both state to line the hide with sphagnum moss.
Yesterday I had texted her that she needed to pull the sphagnum moss from the hides.
This morning she pointed out that the care guides here DO NOT say that, and she said she doesn't need to be bombarded with more confusing and contradictory information and will stick with what the breeder is advising.
She thanked me for my help but said it was no longer required.

Oh well. <Shrugs> I'm sure the tort will do fine. LoriAnn is biologist and savvy about most things.

But I do understand her perception of confusing info from this list.
Do the care files need to have sphagnum removed from them?

Yes. Shagnum is awful. If she wan'ts to risk her babies life on something that doesn't even help humidity, that's on her. Thank you so much @Kipley for being responsible and trying to help her raise her tort. Just wondering, would you ever be interested in raising a tortoise? Also tell her that tom has been breeding torts for decades, and that his experience has shown him that sphagnum is bad for the little guys.

 

[Kipley]

Yes. Shagnum is awful. If she wan'ts to risk her babies life on something that doesn't even help humidity, that's on her. Thank you so much @Kipley for being responsible and trying to help her raise her tort. Just wondering, would you ever be interested in raising a tortoise? Also tell her that tom has been breeding torts for decades, and that his experience has shown him that sphagnum is bad for the little guys.

Raising a hatchling? I've tossed the idea around but it seems that so many fail. I attempted to raise three Hermann's torts that were a week or two old, they lingered for a few weeks and finally succumbed. They were from a wholesale place with a horrible reputation - I didn't do my research on the seller. Combined with my inexperience.....

Sphagnum should be removed from both care guides here if it is that dangerous.

 

[Toddrickfl1]

LoriAnn said that the Redfoot hatchling is doing well, pooping and eating, and spending most of the time in its hide.

She declined my invitation to join here, says it seems the info here is just as conflicting as the FB advice....

She was sent the Redfoot care guides from this forum by someone in the FB group, and set up her enclosure follwing the guidelines in the two care sheets. Both state to line the hide with sphagnum moss.
Yesterday I had texted her that she needed to pull the sphagnum moss from the hides.
This morning she pointed out that the care guides here DO NOT say that, and she said she doesn't need to be bombarded with more confusing and contradictory information and will stick with what the breeder is advising.
She thanked me for my help but said it was no longer required.

Oh well. <Shrugs> I'm sure the tort will do fine. LoriAnn is biologist and savvy about most things.

But I do understand her perception of confusing info from this list.
Do the care files need to have sphagnum removed from them?

For what it's worth I've used sphagnum moss with my Redfoots for several years with no issues ever.

 

[Tony the Tort42]

For what it's worth I've used sphagnum moss with my Redfoots for several years with no issues ever.

Id believe it, but why is it worth the risk? I think many torts are smart enough to not eat it, but there are always exceptions.

 

[Relic]

Until Zuckerberg develops an insanity filter for Facebook posts, I can't imagine gleaning any dependable advice there in areas in which you are ignorant. You can't reliably separate the wheat from the chaff when you don't know which is which. (Unless you're gluten-sensitive, in which case you can just toss it all out...)

 

[Sa Ga]

LoriAnn said that the Redfoot hatchling is doing well, pooping and eating, and spending most of the time in its hide.

She declined my invitation to join here, says it seems the info here is just as conflicting as the FB advice....

She was sent the Redfoot care guides from this forum by someone in the FB group, and set up her enclosure follwing the guidelines in the two care sheets. Both state to line the hide with sphagnum moss.
Yesterday I had texted her that she needed to pull the sphagnum moss from the hides.
This morning she pointed out that the care guides here DO NOT say that, and she said she doesn't need to be bombarded with more confusing and contradictory information and will stick with what the breeder is advising.
She thanked me for my help but said it was no longer required.

Oh well. <Shrugs> I'm sure the tort will do fine. LoriAnn is biologist and savvy about most things.

But I do understand her perception of confusing info from this list.
Do the care files need to have sphagnum removed from them?

It IS confusing, esp since info changes and there is plenty of grey area, where one person does one thing and it works, and another does another does the same, and their tort is harmed.

Your friend has to look past the answers and think critically....WHY is that item advised for/against? What could happen and is it worth the risk to do/not do?

Ignoring resources is a mistake. You look, you learn, and you ASK. I hope her little guy is ok, but please keep urging her to think and look into things (that's what research is all about! ), not just look for pat answers. It's a bad way to be about anything cuz then it's just taking whatever comes first as fact...info roulette.

 

[Toddrickfl1]

I think a lot of confusion comes from the fact that not everybody lives in the same area. What works for my Redfoots in GA won't necessarily work for someone raising Redfoots in Canada.