Hard to believe they are both Egyptian Tortoises...

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CyberianHusky

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This is a pic of both my Egyptian Tortoises the brighter colored one is Munchies he is temp sexed to be male. The smaller dulled colored one if Butters temp sexed to be female. The dramatic difference between the two is amazing I wonder if Butters is part Testudo Werneri?
 

CyberianHusky

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Ooops here a pic of the two of them.

CyberianHusky said:
This is a pic of both my Egyptian Tortoises the brighter colored one is Munchies he is temp sexed to be male. The smaller dulled colored one if Butters temp sexed to be female. The dramatic difference between the two is amazing I wonder if Butters is part Testudo Werneri?
 

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Az tortoise compound

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Cyberian,
They look good. Yes there is quite a bit of difference in the two. i would like to bump this thread to get some more opinions here.
 

N2TORTS

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Gerry , thats Xactly what it is .....
kleinmanni vs werneri,
Sequence variation of a 1066 bp long mtDNA fragment (cytochrome b gene, adjacent part of tRNA-Thr gene) of four known-locality samples of Testudo kleinmanni (Tripolitania, Libya) and of four samples of T. werneri (Negev, Israel) is compared with additional five sequences of pet trade tortoises allegedly representing T. kleinmanni. Four haplotypes, differing in one to four mutation steps occur. The most common haplotype was shared by all known-locality samples of T. kleinmanni and three T. werneri. Sequence variation within each nominal species and in the pooled sample of T. kleinmanni, T. werneri and pet trade tortoises is the lowest known for any Testudo species
Here is a personal friend , and some great info ~
Buskirk, J.R. 1985. The endangered Egyptian tortoise Testudo kleinmanni: Status in Egypt and Israel In: S. McKeown, F. Caporaso and K. H. Peterson (eds) 9th International Herpetological Symposium on Captive Propagation and Husbandry. pp. 35-52. University of San Diego, San Diego, CA.

JD~:)
 

egyptiandan

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Sorry to burst the bubble JD, but there is no such thing as "Testudo werneri". The genetics didn't hold up and the populations aren't different enough to be different species.
So they are all back to being T.kleinmanni now.
For now the color difference is due to Butters still having the hatchling coloration. She may end up being lighter and she may not. If she does though it's just that her parents most likely came from Egypt as opposed to Libya.

Danny
 

moswen

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oh goodness munchies is gorgeous!! both so cute though! i'm jealous, i love egyptians.
 

N2TORTS

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egyptiandan said:
Sorry to burst the bubble JD, but there is no such thing as "Testudo werneri". The genetics didn't hold up and the populations aren't different enough to be different species.
So they are all back to being T.kleinmanni now.
For now the color difference is due to Butters still having the hatchling coloration. She may end up being lighter and she may not. If she does though it's just that her parents most likely came from Egypt as opposed to Libya.

Danny

Yea .... I belive your right , just an overview of what I have read / talked with folks about ...years back ... here was even somthing i found
•Domain: Eukaryota () - Whittaker & Margulis,1978 - eukaryotes
•Kingdom: Animalia () - Linnaeus, 1758 - animals
•Subkingdom: Bilateria () - (Hatschek, 1888) Cavalier-Smith, 1983
•Branch: Deuterostomia () - Grobben, 1908
•Infrakingdom: Chordonia () - (Haeckel, 1874) Cavalier-Smith, 1998
•Phylum: Chordata () - Bateson, 1885 - Chordates
•Subphylum: Vertebrata () - Cuvier, 1812 - Vertebrates
•Infraphylum: Gnathostomata () - Auct. - Jawed Vertebrates
•Superclass: Tetrapoda () - Goodrich, 1930
•Class: Reptilia () - Reptiles
•Subclass: Anapsida ()
•Order: Testudines ()
•Suborder: Cryptodira ()
•Superfamily: Testudinoidea ()
•Family: Emydidae ()
•Genus: Testudo () - Linnaeus, 1758
•Specific name: werneri - PER�L� 2001
•Scientific name: - Testudo werneri PER�L� 2001
Currently, T. werneri has a national Israel Red List status of Endangered (EN, A2cd, B). According to present estimates, the global population has declined by around 95% in less than three generations. The remaining T. werneri population is essentially restricted to an area of around 700 km2 or less in northwestern Negev, Israel. Ten individuals are known from Zaranik in northern Sinai of Egypt. The present population size is estimated at between 2520 and 3150 individuals depending on parameters used, of which around 1890 to 2360 tortoises would be adults
JD~
 

CyberianHusky

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Thank you all for the responses!!! Even Butters personality is different from Munchies. Munchies tends to be a little shyer but first one to wake up in the morning. Butters is very outgoing and not shy at all and eats more variety than Munchies. Munchies had yellow on him and contrasting marks at a very young age. So I was wondering if Butters was part Werneri but, I guess there is no such thing. I guess to understand how different each Egyptian personality and coloration is I am going to have to own more of them. So any breeders out reading this thread keep me in mind for hatchlings.
 
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