Grocery Store Greens Good

[Kapidolo Farms]

I did a GOOGLE search for "H-Mart" and it came back with many different Asian Groceries, one of which is here in my town. It's a little far from where I live, but I'll keep it in mind for the next time I'm over in that direction.

Thanks for the pictures, Will. But I must say the greens all look pretty wilted and not real fresh.

The greens are no more or less fresh than the Santa Barbara mix, just like dairy, if you want the more distant expiration date, you have to reach to the back of the shelf. I don't often find the bunches at the front the best to buy with greens either.

Will

 

[gtc]

https://www.dropbox.com/sc/8zh6xag5huyc78i/cLRJCvGlpm

This is a link to a progression of things that I can get, in addition to those you see in the first post. Then with many more images, you see how I chop it up, and what the end result is. I think even if my tortoises could use tweezers, and had them, they are no going to able to pick out one thing over the other so well. If they refuse all, that's Ok today, tomorrow is another day. Eventually they acquiesce, and eat it all.

The beverage can is in many images for spatial/size comparison. Images are not in an order anymore so than I would actually prepare one thing over another, if I imaged each item in its own sequence of preparation that would double/triple the prep time.

I made a much more complicated mix, for the sake of example in one collection of images. It ended up being about twice the "leafy" volume that I would prepare on any given day.

That double amount does not refer to the supplements. That is the amount I use for half the total leafy volume prepared as seen, until the last two or three images where I have halved the amount. The supplements are 2 to 4 scoops of ZooMed as shown and then 2 to 4 scoops of Purina Laynea Sunfresh crumbles layer food for chickens. Never more than 6 scoops total, it could be 1:5 to 5:1. Once placed in the small sour cream tub I add the Aloe Juice to twice the depth of the dry things, that gets absorbed with no spare liquid. Water is used the same way.

I show dry, then wetted, then scissor cut wetted greens. I show a bunch of mixed fresh grass as well, today I put them both in, it is usually one or the other. My grass garden consists of American millet, lemon, crab, and St. Augustine grass. The image of the growing plants is a few of the grasses and the small hibiscus crop. I still have not tried or used the frozen lemongrass.

All the greens that I use over about a month are in this one salad. The "usual" is about 80% Romaine and the Santa Barbara mix. That bag of six romaine bunches is $2.79, the Santa Barbara mix is $5.99. As the base, that will last about a week for the animals that get the leafy abundance salad. Most everyday the other 20% is Mulberry (not in these images) and hibiscus. All these other things end up being a low %, maybe as a much as 10% when mulberry is still available or 15%+ when the mulberry drops its leaves. IMO this constant/dynamic preparation prevents a fixation on a certain salad or mix of greens.

I rinse all of them, and let them drip off, but don't get crazy with that. The moisture helps the grass bits stick to the leafy bits.

The hatchlings eat it all indiscriminately across the eating area, with the exception that the leos don't seem to like the sesame so much. Adult wild caught pancakes are the least picky of wild caught tortoises I have. Some individuals on one day or another pick out the stem pieces over the leaf pieces, some don't seem to care. When two pancake are eating at the same time, the concern to pick and choose goes away.

In short, to characterize a leafy plant as unacceptable because it came from a grocery stores, is short sighted. If you only have a Quickie Mart for most of your shopping availability, I get it, but then that indicates a more rural home, and the corresponding abundance of space to grow your own food and or harvest weeds. There are no doubt a few "that one place" hundreds of miles from anywhere that is also a barren wasteland of post apocalyptic proportions, I got nothing for you, but mail order herbs and grasses for your iceberg lettuce and grated carrots.

There are the mail order places for salad mixes and supplements designed just for tortoises. In shorter short: Grocery Greens are Good.

If you seek an explanation for an image, shout it out with the sequence number please.

Will

I see you feed your torts many vietnamese greens. We buy those all the time, I had no idea torts could eat them! Are there others on this form feeding them to their torts? Any links explaing which asian greens are safe and which are not?

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

Re: RE: Grocery Store Greens Good

I see you feed your torts many vietnamese greens. We buy those all the time, I had no idea torts could eat them! Are there others on this form feeding them to their torts? Any links explaing which asian greens are safe and which are not?

What do you mean "safe"?

Will

 

[gtc]

I see you feed your torts many vietnamese greens. We buy those all the time, I had no idea torts could eat them! Are there others on this form feeding them to their torts? Any links explaing which asian greens are safe and which are not?

What do you mean "safe"?

Will

I have been using info from various care sheets and also thetortoisetable to determine which greens are safe to feed and which I should aviod feeding due to potential toxic properties.

 

[dokomadake]

I use a lot of these same greens from the korean market right down the road. Me and my tortoises love those greens!

 

[Yvonne G]

Safe - if YOU can eat it, your tortoise can eat it. The key is to feed a nice variety, don't get stuck feeding the same thing at every feeding.

Spurge and purselane (weeds) are both high in oxalates, however, in the wild tortoises eat them all the time. Is it a good idea to feed your tortoise spurge and only spurge every day? No, but occasionally it isn't going to hurt him.

 

[gtc]

Safe - if YOU can eat it, your tortoise can eat it. The key is to feed a nice variety, don't get stuck feeding the same thing at every feeding.t

Spurge and purselane (weeds) are both high in oxalates, however, in the wild tortoises eat them all the time. Is it a good idea to feed your tortoise spurge and only spurge every day? No, but occasionally it isn't going to hurt him.

That opens up so many more types of store greens I will start feeding my tortoise. I guess I have been too influenced by the tortoisetable. Thanks.

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

GTC, I better understand. You make me glad for writing this thread, if you now see a wider array of things to feed your tortoise.

Frankly If I had a large outdoor area, I would elect to have enclosures managed, not tortoises, a tricky flip of words, in that I would seek to grow what they eat, in their enclosure, manage the whole small eco-system, rather than tortoises in an outdoor pen

But I live in an apartment with very limited space, so feed my tortoises from the grocery store, for a large volume of their intake.

I try to sort out what some of those plants are, then look further to see what nutritional properties they may have. But I am not well able to translate the Viet Namese names into latin, for that further analysis. So I default to Yvonne's POV, if I eat it, at least a small infrequent portion for the tortoise is going to be OK.

The tortoise table is a great resource, but no one resource is all the best of tortoise keeping. I frequently try to find source material on what the wildtype eats to guide me.

My primary driver in this effort is to prevent 'palate myopia' in the tortoises.

Will

 

[gtc]

GTC, I better understand. You make me glad for writing this thread, if you now see a wider array of things to feed your tortoise.

Frankly If I had a large outdoor area, I would elect to have enclosures managed, not tortoises, a tricky flip of words, in that I would seek to grow what they eat, in their enclosure, manage the whole small eco-system, rather than tortoises in an outdoor pen

But I live in an apartment with very limited space, so feed my tortoises from the grocery store, for a large volume of their intake.

I try to sort out what some of those plants are, then look further to see what nutritional properties they may have. But I am not well able to translate the Viet Namese names into latin, for that further analysis. So I default to Yvonne's POV, if I eat it, at least a small infrequent portion for the tortoise is going to be OK.

The tortoise table is a great resource, but no one resource is all the best of tortoise keeping. I frequently try to find source material on what the wildtype eats to guide me.

My primary driver in this effort is to prevent 'palate myopia' in the tortoises.

Will

Yes, thanks Will this was a great thread, and it came just in time for the winter. The weeds in my yard will soon be covered by snow.

 

[mightymizz]

I have had a tortoise vomit Mustard greens when I fed it the first time. Have you noticed any vomiting with the introduction of a never before eaten leaf?

I didn't mix in some Mustard Green, just put a leaf in by itself.

Thanks for this article and Photo's too!

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

Re: RE: Grocery Store Greens Good

I have had a tortoise vomit Mustard greens when I fed it the first time. Have you noticed any vomiting with the introduction of a never before eaten leaf?

I didn't mix in some Mustard Green, just put a leaf in by itself.

Thanks for this article and Photo's too!

I don't think I have ever seen a tortoise vomit, the way I think of what vomit is. I have seen tortoises change their interest to swallow what is already in their mouth, I call that wretching, could be the same thing?

In that case yes I've seen it. It looks uncomforatble, but they get whatever it is out of their mouth. The example that comes to mind is an Egyptian wretching some greens out of it's mouth, as those greens included a slug.

I've not tried mustard greens, but I might sometime. So far the most favored strange grocery green that they all like is the squash leaves.

Will

 

[AnnV]

I tried mustard greens. No one was particularly interested but I chopped it and put it in the mix.
Then I put the mustard in my green smoothie for the first time. WOW SPICY.
Mustardy!

My star vomited once. I didn't see him do it. But I found it and there was no doubt it was thrown up. It was yellow summer squash. Which he had eaten before. I am thinking maybe my cat was walking on top of his enclosure and he dumped his meal out of stress. It was a lot. I dont let the cats in the basement with the torts any more.

 

[PrincessBowser]

My Redfoot loves her collard greens!
If I want to introduce her to squash or zucchini I can just put it in there raw and cut up? She's a couple years old (I think)

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

My Redfoot loves her collard greens!
If I want to introduce her to squash or zucchini I can just put it in there raw and cut up? She's a couple years old (I think)

YES, washed and whole is good too. Those seeds inside this kind of food item are a vital part of gut health in these species. But that is also relative to the size of the tortoise. A small tortoise and big seeds is not good. I consider that the tortoise is 'up and running' not a first meal neonate, and that a single seed would be no where near a mouth full. I typically consider the tortoise should be able to hold about a dozen seeds in it's mouth as a size relationship of seed to mouth. Then as they eat a whole squash, the incidental seed intake is OK.

Will

 

[PrincessBowser]

Fantastic. Thank you

 

[Tom]

This is a fantastic thread with lots of great ideas! I've never seen squash leaves for sale anywhere. I will have to check my local asian markets.

Question though Will: What percentage of "regular tortoise owning folks" do you think go to the lengths you go to to make grocery store greens into a good diet vs. just peeling off a few leaves of plain romaine and dropping them into the enclosure?

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

This is a fantastic thread with lots of great ideas! I've never seen squash leaves for sale anywhere. I will have to check my local asian markets.

Question though Will: What percentage of "regular tortoise owning folks" do you think go to the lengths you go to to make grocery store greens into a good diet vs. just peeling off a few leaves of plain romaine and dropping them into the enclosure?

I wouldn't guess a number, or percent, but hope to drive the 'regular tortoise owning folks' to spend more time on a good diet, than on little stone paths to the painted house hide on their barbie doll tortoise table.

I've seen the same thing with Zoo Directors for that matter Tom, they want the shiny new building with a donors name on it, and forget all about the day to day maintenance of the animals inside. The new building gets all the tours from dignitaries of animals the Director know little about.

It's not like going to the store is something you don't do already, yeah, so just look for the the unusual things. Take an imagine with your smart phone, do a little goole-ing, and figure it out.

"No biggy" as we would say when I was a little kid. Google has made most inquiry "no biggy". There are numerous science based analysis on the web of food nutrient content.

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

Looks like based on other threads, I ought to give this a bounce.

 

[Yvonne G]

Well, thank goodness for bouncing, because I'm not a bit fan of the bump!

 

[tortoise5643]

Re: RE: Grocery Store Greens Good

In Maryland it is called G-Mart. It is an international market.

In Texas it's called k-mart. Lol