Grizzly mauls two kills one

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Candy

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This is what infuriates me, stories like these. I realize that people like to camp, but if you do you should realize where you are and what could happen to you at any time. I can't believe that they trapped these bears and killed the mother because someone camped in her territory. I heard at first that they would trap the bear or bears and move the to a remote area, but no they had to kill her and now the babies will be live their life out at some zoo. This story makes me so sad. I myself don't think that we have the right to take over everything in this world. Somethings need to be left alone. Animals should have their rights and their spaces to roam free. Killing them does not send a message to the other grizzlies out there who are going to kill again so why not just move them, why must they be killed? I just don't understand and never will. :(

http://www.kfbb.com/news/local/Grizzly-Bear-Put-Down-After-Deadly-Attack-99670159.html
 

dmmj

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RE: Grizzle mauls two kills one

Animals don't have rights. While I agree that if you go camping you could be in danger, I fell they had no coice but to kill this bear, most bears don't attack people the ones that do there is usually something wrong.
 

Candy

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RE: Grizzle mauls two kills one

Then why kill it why not move it to (like I said before) a remote area where it will not come into contact with humans? And I strongly disagree with you...Animals do have rights. We have to get to a point where we stop blaming the animals for stupid human moves.
 

Tom

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RE: Grizzle mauls two kills one

dmmj is right. Once a wild animal kills a human being and realizes how weak we are and how easy it was, there is no going back. Relocating them would likely be a death sentence to any human in the area of relocation. Relocation also causes major problems for the bears that are already in that territory. One of them, either the new comer, or the existing bear, is going to lose the fight and die later on. The balance of territories among bears is a very tentative thing. The footage we see on nature programs of 6 bears in a stream eating salmon together is a very unusual circumstance and only happens in that area at that time of year.

Further, think about this. If your out there and one of your children is in danger from an aberrant unnaturally aggressive bear, whose gonna die? The bear or your kid?

If it were me and my little girl out there, I'd be telling the story about what went down on my new bear skin rug with my little girl by my side.

I don't want to kill wild animals in wild areas. I feel the same sense of loss and angst that you do about it, BUT common sense, reason and logic MUST win out.

I'm a softy animal lover too, but I will do what's necessary and right. Human life is more important and valuable to me than that bear's life. I wish the bear had decided to run off into the bushes that day, but he didn't. Let this serve as another example for people. The nicest thing you can do for a wild animal is scare the crap out of it and teach it to fear and avoid humans.
 

Candy

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There is no difference between an animal life and a human life, a life is a life. The biggest problem we have is thinking that we are superior to them and that when one works off of instincts we kill it. We think that this solves the problem, but it doesn't. There have been and always will be killing of humans by grizzlies, but not do to the stupidity of the bear but rather by the superiority complex apparently inherent in human nature. Parental instinct tells us that naturally we would protect our child in order to preserve our own lifeline and perhaps that was exactly what the bear was doing for her own we don't know that.
 

dmmj

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Candy said:
There is no difference between an animal life and a human life, a life is a life. .
That is perhaps the scariest thing I have ever seen posted here
 

Tom

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I COMPLETELY disagree with you that a life is a life and that an animals life has the same value or meaning that a human's does.

However, I wouldn't hesitate to kill a human who was trying to harm my family either. In fact, depending on the circumstances, I might hesitate less.

There is a growing and alarming trend in our ever-softening society that some how death is this horrible thing and nothing or no-one should ever die. Sometimes things gotta die. Sometimes things, and people, gotta be killed. Its not pleasant. Its not appropriate dinner conversation, but it is a fact of life. One thing must die, so that others might live. Even vegan, animal rightist extremists have to kill dozens of carrots to survive and go to rally's everyday. In my mind, there is no difference between killing the rabbit, the carrot, the homicidal bear, or the homicidal human, in order to insure my survival and prosperity. Its just a necessary, if unpleasant, part of life.
 

Kristina

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Tom said:
However, I wouldn't hesitate to kill a human who was trying to harm my family either. In fact, depending on the circumstances, I might hesitate less.


I would DEFINITELY hesitate less. Animals run on instinct, humans rationalize (most of us, anyway.)

I would not hesitate to kill anyone or anything threatening my family. But I would do everything I could to avoid being put in that situation.
 

Candy

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And this is what I am talking about. Why do we put ourselves out in there country and then blame them for what comes natural. As for bears not attacking humans I don't believe that either. I dare to say if you stand yourself in front of a bear your not going to have much of a chance. I do understand that if you are in natural that you will do everything in your power to protect yourself against them, but after the fact doesn't make sense to me. We don't even know that it's the right bear and as for the fact that they say they have the right one due to DNA, who are you believing here? How many times have they convicted innocent humans based on having to provide the public with a killer even if it's the wrong person? :(

dmmj said:
Candy said:
There is no difference between an animal life and a human life, a life is a life. .
That is perhaps the scariest thing I have ever seen posted here

Maybe you'll understand more if I put it in this way.....Do you think to God that one life is more valuable then another? I'm afraid that's just how you as a human perceives it, that's probably why that post was scary for you. Aren't you the one who tried to get PETA to back you on saving the lives of animals? I'm afraid this outlook doesn't match that, but it might be a clue on why they didn't.
 

chadk

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Besides the strange belief that animals are equal to humans.... (where would you draw the line? Mammals? Reptiles? Inesects? Bacteria? Fungi? Parasistes? Cute animals vs ugly animals... well, you never know...)

How about we focus on one thing at a time.
1) Do you believe that a bear that kills a human is more likely to do it again or not? Based on what - researching the subject or just feelings?
2) Just as the bear defended its cubs, do humans have a right or obligation to defend eachother (say, against a bear who has killed and will likely kill again)?
3) Do you believe relocation is a good option here? Based on what? Research? Feelings?
 

Tom

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Candy, I know you mean well, but you don't know what you are talking about. Those rangers know the animals within the territory they police and they know when a bear, or any other animal, is not acting "normal". Usually when they go back to the area of the attack the same bear comes back for its next easy victim. This is usually how the bears are killed. When the forest cops go in they are allowed to be armed and not defenseless, so you get a dead bear instead of more dead humans. They necropsy these bears and find human parts in their stomachs. I've seen the photos. I have some of the photos. They can't be posted here. What I'm saying is that they usually don't have to go after the grizzly. The grizzly usually goes after them.

This is a case of self defense. When they arrest a serial killer, they usually don't catch him red-handed in the act of killing someone. By arresting him they are protecting the public from further crimes. If the serial killer attempts to harm someone during the arrest then the officers involved will defend themselves. What we are talking about here is self defense. Are you saying that its just fine and dandy for bears to kill people if we wander in to their territory. Should we never go into bear country unless we are okay with being killed. Are you telling me that the price for a nice walk in the woods is the risk of being eaten by a wild animal and that I can't or shouldn't defend myself because the bear has a right to eat me, since I am in his territory? If the same bear walks into my neighborhood, do I have the right to kill and eat him, just because he is there?

I'm just trying to understand your point of view.
 

dmmj

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Actually I am anti PETA as one can get, anf again god may hold one life the same as the other but god is reffering to human lif, I would wager that god does not hold animal life and human life the same. That post still scares me.
 

chadk

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"we think it solves the problem, but it doesn't"

Um, actually that bear will NEVER kill a human being again. At least THAT problem is solved.

As an avid hiker, camper, fisherman... I know there are risks involved being out there. But there are far more risks just walking down the street in your average big city or driving down the average road to be honest.

Animals should be treated well, but they are essential in providing food (to eachother and to humans). It is part of life and how the food chain works. If on one had, you want humans to be equal to animals... well, animals kill eachother all the time and have no regrets about it. It is just survival. Some even do it just for fun (like orca's playing with seals before eventually eating them). On the other hand, if you want to talk about God, it just depends on what 'god' you are talking about. The God of Jews and Christians for example says we should treat the animals well, but that many are created to be food. In fact, only a few religions have a 100% no killing of any creature type position in their belief system (impossible to do by the way...).
 

Candy

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This is a case of self defense. When they arrest a serial killer, they usually don't catch him red-handed in the act of killing someone. By arresting him they are protecting the public from further crimes. If the serial killer attempts to harm someone during the arrest then the officers involved will defend themselves. What we are talking about here is self defense. Are you saying that its just fine and dandy for bears to kill people if we wander in to their territory. Should we never go into bear country unless we are okay with being killed. Are you telling me that the price for a nice walk in the woods is the risk of being eaten by a wild animal and that I can't or shouldn't defend myself because the bear has a right to eat me, since I am in his territory? If the same bear walks into my neighborhood, do I have the right to kill and eat him, just because he is there?

What I am trying to say Tom is that lots of humans are put into jail because the public wants revenge against predators and if you're trying to say that you know that they are positive that this is the right bear forgive me but I don't believe people that easily. Maybe it is and maybe it isn't. Humans want to feel that they are safe again and sometimes the authorities will lie (yes) to make them feel safe again. Whether they did this time I don't actually know that because of course I'm not reading the evidence that they have. I know that the bears will come back again, but again it is their territory why shouldn't they? Am I telling you the price for a nice walk in Yellowstone might be death? Yes I guess that would be my response. Is it your right to protect yourself if you do, I don't know the answer to that I'm not sure what the law says. Do I believe that you should go camp in a tent there and take a gun with you to protect yourself, not that a gun would have done any good for the woman that he attacked since she didn't have a chance to get to one anyway. I don't want people to go camping in areas that are natural sites for bears and then blame the bears for the attack. Plain and simple, I just don't agree that we have the right to kill them by chance they're protecting themselves just as we would if we thought there we were in danger.
 

Missy

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Candy said:
And this is what I am talking about. Why do we put ourselves out in there country and then blame them for what comes natural. As for bears not attacking humans I don't believe that either. I dare to say if you stand yourself in front of a bear your not going to have much of a chance. I do understand that if you are in natural that you will do everything in your power to protect yourself against them, but after the fact doesn't make sense to me. We don't even know that it's the right bear and as for the fact that they say they have the right one due to DNA, who are you believing here? How many times have they convicted innocent humans based on having to provide the public with a killer even if it's the wrong person? :(

dmmj said:
Candy said:
There is no difference between an animal life and a human life, a life is a life. .
That is perhaps the scariest thing I have ever seen posted here

Maybe you'll understand more if I put it in this way.....Do you think to God that one life is more valuable then another? I'm afraid that's just how you as a human perceives it, that's probably why that post was scary for you. Aren't you the one who tried to get PETA to back you on saving the lives of animals? I'm afraid this outlook doesn't match that, but it might be a clue on why they didn't.



I agree with dmmj, scary. And yes to God there is a difference, humans were made in Gods image not animals. I love animals too but would take a bears life over even a stupid humans.
 

Candy

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dmmj said:
Actually I am anti PETA as one can get, anf again god may hold one life the same as the other but god is reffering to human lif, I would wager that god does not hold animal life and human life the same. That post still scares me.


I would say that this is not as anti Peta as one can get. You were trying to do the right thing by helping animals and thought of Peta. Here in your own words...

RE: EMERGENCY: 2 friendly KITTENS going to shelter TODAY!
2 years ago I tried unsuccesfully to have california become a no kill state. I did this on my own and it failed miserably, I posted on CL and other sites asking people to just sign up not asking for money or anything else, and I only got one response. It is sad cause alot of great animals are bing destroyed for very flimsy reasons most of the time. I was even willing to work with P.E.T.A but to no avail.
I feel like a Q without a U
Also
Jimmy cracked corn and I don't care
It is better to have people think you are a fool, than open your mouth and remove all doubt.
Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes.

I am not asking you to take a bears over a humans...I am asking why not relocate them why must we kill them? You guys are really missing my point. I never said that your children were out there in danger my point was that after they kill why not remove them from the situation to another location, why must we provide death instead?
 

dmmj

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I said I was willing to work with PETA, sometimes you have to make deals with the devil to get good done, I of course did not work with them because my cause fell apart, as much as I think PETA is an evil Org. I do understand the power and wealth they could have brought to my cause of turning calif into a no kill state.
 

DeanS

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NO CAMPING!
GRIZZLY COUNTRY!
 

RichardS

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This thread is insane. The animal killed a person and is a danger to other people. I don't care if its a croc, bear, lion, or one eyed one horned flying purple people eater... Attack a human, game over. It is, what it is. Its not about any BS with PETA, or god, or anything other than common sense.
 
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