Greek Sub-species identification

[Guggie]

Hi, all! It's time for "Guess that Greek subspecies!"

My 2 Greeks are just over 5 years old. I am 100% sure both are male (they've both presented), and am relatively sure they are both Ibera. However, they are so ... different. Tweek is lighter colored, comparatively huge, and has spurs; Cujo darker, smaller and has no spurs. They were bought at the same time from Tortoise Supply in 2011.

Cujo
804 g
17 cm SCL
No spurs at all (and doesn't hold still very well...)




Tweek
1039 g
19 cm SCL
Huge spurs




Thanks!

 

[Yvonne G]

Well, I guess that let's me out! I'm notoriously BAD at the Greeks and Hermanns. Nice tortoises, though!

 

[JoesMum]

@HermanniChris can do this

I am terrible at it!

 

[Guggie]

Well, I guess that let's me out! I'm notoriously BAD at the Greeks and Hermanns. Nice tortoises, though!

@HermanniChris can do this

I am terrible at it!

Thanks! (You know, I meant this for @HermanniChris all along, but didn't want to bug him directly. )

 

[Yvonne G]

We've got another member with a pretty good track record - @WithLisa

 

[Guggie]

We've got another member with a pretty good track record - @WithLisa

Thanks!

 

[WithLisa]

We've got another member with a pretty good track record - @WithLisa

Sorry, you overestimate me...
I know a little about Hermanns, but Greek subspecies - no idea. They are not so common here, I hardly ever see them in the flesh.

 

[HermanniChris]

Tweek is definitely ibera, cujo appears to be a possible mix with ibera and maybe buxtoni. Beautiful animals.

 

[Guggie]

Tweek is definitely ibera, cujo appears to be a possible mix with ibera and maybe buxtoni. Beautiful animals.

Thanks, @HermanniChris, for the praise and the info! I'm very curious about Cujo now... Are there any other photos - different angles, better lighting - that I can get you to make you give a more definite opinion? I got him from @TylerStewart at TortoiseSupply... maybe he'll know? Is he still active here?

One non-physical difference between the two... Cujo is an aggressive little butthead. He charges your hand, bites, rams. Tweek... you could stick your finger in front of his face, bopping him on the nose for hours, and he would ignore it. When the two are together, Cujo is by far more aggressive, even though he is significantly smaller. I wonder if that could be down to the difference in sub-species?

 

[Guggie]

Sorry, you overestimate me...
I know a little about Hermanns, but Greek subspecies - no idea. They are not so common here, I hardly ever see them in the flesh.

Thanks anyways!

 

[HermanniChris]

Aggression doesn't have much to do with it. Ibera are actually the most aggressive typically but all Greeks have it in their blood to be pushy.

So many Greeks have been mixed up in the American trade and that's why we see "different" or atypical looking ones. Without DNA there's no way to be 100% certain unless the history of the animal is on some kind of document.