Greek (I think) tortoises in an Istanbul garden

[pavlvsrex]

Hello. This is a long one. I'm trying to care for two young tortoises about the size of a full hand in my garden in Istanbul Turkey over the winter. They were given to me by a former neighbour in the middle of summer. I've seen many larger tortoises (native to this part of the world) living quite happily in apartment block gardens in this city, however my two are quite small and I was worried about their hibernation (or freezing to death in a city where decent snowfall is not uncommon).

Over the summer and autumn they were quite happy plodding about in the rather large garden. I offered them herbivore tortoise pellets which they refused, however they ate foliage in the garden and greens I tossed their way as well as a bit of fruit here and there. As it got much colder (5 to 7C) I noticed they had both stopped eating, but were still slowly pottering about and not making any effort to dig a hideaway.

Recently I noticed that the smallest had buried itself under leaf litter rather than dig a hole, and the slightly larger one was moving 30cms a day across the garden despite 3 to 5C temps and heavy rain. Then he stopped moving for a few days.

We were then advised that construction work may begin in the garden quite soon and the apartment block may have to be demolished due to it having failed an earthquake resilience test. I was also concerned that the caretaker would gather the leaves (and tortoise) to throw in the bin (no amount of reminding him would be enough. They just don't care here) so a few days ago I bought a little crate and some fresh soil to keep them in on our glassed off balcony (always above freezing, between 5 and 10C usually) as the temps here were expected to drop below zero. I put a shallow tray of fresh water but no food. Both seemed to be asleep at the time.

Yesterday I noticed that one had been turned upside down, and the other was wide awake despite temps of about 7 degrees. The upside down one had floppy legs and a tucked in head and was unresponsive. There has been no change today. I've offered food to the woken up fellow, but his bigger friend is still limp. My question is essentially did I screw up by taking in the non-hibernating tortoise?; and, how can I see if he's still alive? There is no smell emanating from him, and no discharge at all.

I really appreciate any advice. I'd much rather leave them in the garden to fend for themselves but didn't want to have them thrown in the bin or worse, concreted over for a new car park over the winter.

Thanks

PN

 

[Yvonne G]

It sounds like the upside down tortoise has died. I don't think you made a mistake bringing them out of the garden, however, care must be taken to make sure they don't freeze. If you post pictures of the tortoises we can tell you for sure if you have greek tortoises, and if they are a species that brumates (hibernates).

Here in Central California, we DO have winter nights below freezing, so I make sure my outdoor tortoises are at least 2' below the frost line. Of course, very young tortoises are brought into the house and set up in indoor enclosures for the winter.

As an aside, a brumating tortoise is still responsive to stimulation, they are not floppy and unresponsive, that's why I thought he may have died.

 

[pavlvsrex]

It sounds like the upside down tortoise has died. I don't think you made a mistake bringing them out of the garden, however, care must be taken to make sure they don't freeze. If you post pictures of the tortoises we can tell you for sure if you have greek tortoises, and if they are a species that brumates (hibernates).

Here in Central California, we DO have winter nights below freezing, so I make sure my outdoor tortoises are at least 2' below the frost line. Of course, very young tortoises are brought into the house and set up in indoor enclosures for the winter.

As an aside, a brumating tortoise is still responsive to stimulation, they are not floppy and unresponsive, that's why I thought he may have died.

Hi. Thanks for getting back to me so fast.

I've uploaded two pics. The smaller one with its head out is still active and appears to be eating a bit. The second one is the floppy legs one with its head withdrawn. He was very sweet. I hope he's just comatose or something. Is there any reason you can think of as to why he didn't dig in or hide somewhere as it got colder? Incidentally he was still responsive when I put him in the box, but it was going below freezing at night that evening so all the more urgency to ensure he didn't freeze to death.

 

[Yvonne G]

If it were me, I would make a nice indoor enclosure out of a large plastic tub, with a CHE for heat (ceramic heat emitter) and a good quality UVB light. I would soak both tortoises in warm water for about a half hour, making sure to keep the one with his head withdrawn's nostrils above the water. Because I'm not familiar with what sub species of Greek tortoise your two are, I don't know if they're one of the sub species that hibernate, so I would be hesitant to set them up to hibernate. You were right to bring them in from the garden, but now they also need to be warmed up. We have a great care sheet here:

https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/greek-tortoise-care-guide.174622/

If you read through it you can learn how to set your tortoises up to live indoors until the weather warms up enough to put them back outside. I hope the one hasn't died, but it really looks like it has.

 

[pavlvsrex]

Hi Yvonne. Thanks for that, I'm having a read of it now. I will have to keep these critters indoors this winter now I guess. Oddly though these animals are native here and we get below freezing days with several days of snowfall every year, much of which stays on the ground for up to a week.

By the behaviour of the smaller one, having allowed about a foot of leaf litter to accumulate on itself and remain there for a few weeks, it seems they do hibernate but perhaps these two just didn't dig for whatever reason. At the moment they are in a tub (together) with sterile soil and some water (and a bit of food) on the balcony which is about 10 degrees C. I will buy a decent sized tub tomorrow and gradually bring them (if the bigger one is still alive) in. The other difficulty I had was ensuring they ate well. The garden has grass and all sorts of weeds. I tried feeding them collared greens and everything else that was recommended but they had no interest. The only thing they liked were cucumber peels. They didn't touch the (very expensive) pellets either.

And I thought a tortoise was an easy pet to keep in a garden in its natural distribution zone...