Greek hatchling sick, need urgent advice and veterinarian suggestions

Atreides

New Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2014
Messages
6
Hello all.
We've been reading the forum avidly since we got our tortoise (8 months ago). We unexpectedly have a problem with the baby. It's a Greek Ibera 10-11 months old.

The problem:
Suddenly lethargic and weak. Sleeps a lot, seems to have lots of problems moving/walking etc.
Started about a week ago, seems to be getting worse.

It looks healthy, it eats a lot every day, it poops and pees ok (daily or every other day). Shell is not soft or rubbery.

Conditions before sickness:

Open tortoise table, substrate 2/3 topsoil 1/3 sand. Shallow water dish, several hiding places (including climbing log). Tile as food plate.
Basking spot 95, hot side ~85, cool side 75, night temp ~70
Basking light is mercury vapor heat+UV SolarGlo. Two additional UV lights on sides of enclosure (ReptiGlo 5 and ReptiGlo 10). One ceramic heating lamp on 24/7 on a corner to help keep temps up at night and in case the apartment gets too cold.
One humidifier on 24/7 to keep humidity between 40 and 70% (it's not very stable, it's usually around 50).
Soak every other day for 10 minutes.
Vitamins every other day, on a rotation: Calcium, calcium+D3, miner-all, calcium+multivitamins (don't remember brand). (Example: on Monday he would get calcium, on Wednesday calcium+D3, etc).
Diet: opuntia cactus, dandelion greens and turnip greens mainly. Additionally brussels sprouts, endive, kale. A tiny bit of romain lettuce after soaks as a bribe (because it hates soaks).

Different conditions after sickness:
Substrate changed to bath towels (vet orders, see below).
Keeping apartment heating on, so all temps are about 5-10 degrees higher.
Soak daily.

Vet experience
We took him to the vet (in paper he's very well qualified in exotics) but he said the tort looked fine to him. The tortoise was very excited/scared so it was running around all over the place, therefore it didn't look sick... Just bad luck? The vet thought I was crazy.

He noticed a tinge of blood in feces so he suggested to remove the soil and put him in towels in case he was getting GI tract irritation from it. Keep in observation and return if health declined for x-rays and bloodwork.

He also suggested that we stopped all supplements and stopped feeding cactus and focused more on leafy greens from a list including lettuce, carrot and broccoli leaves etc. We don't agree with these two last suggestions so we didn't do it.

Our own suspicions are mainly three:
a) his UV light is not working properly so he suddenly can't absorb calcium and needs more D3 supplementation.
b) he ate something from the substrate (we try sieving the sand etc. but there are always small pebbles anyway) and it's stuck inside causing pain (even though he poops ok, I suppose food could go around it).
c) something wrong with him because he's a bit overgrown (150g, 8.5 cm SCL) or because we were putting him on a very slight diet from a month ago since we realized he shouldn't be that big.

What to do?
Now we're torn whether to take him to the same vet for the follow up or to another one... And what can we do at home to try and improve our baby's health?

We live close to NYC, so any suggestions (from personal experience) for vets around the NYC metro area, New Jersey, or reasonably upstate NY are appreciated.

Thank you so much in advance!!

This tortoise is like our child, we're extremely sad.

-The Atreides family.
 

Yvonne G

Old Timer
TFO Admin
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 23, 2008
Messages
93,405
Location (City and/or State)
Clovis, CA
Hi, and welcome to the Forum!

So sorry to read about your little baby.

I only use a pinch of calcium powder a couple times a week, and I don't use vitamins at all. Occasionally I add a few drops of liquid bird vitamins to the soaking water. Do you soak your baby? I don't remember if I read that or not. Babies should be soaked daily for about 15 minutes.

Take a look at our vet list and see if there's a vet near you.

Also, read the Greek tortoise care sheet that's pinned at the top of our Greek section here on the Forum.
 

Tidgy's Dad

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2015
Messages
48,238
Location (City and/or State)
Fes, Morocco
Hello and welcome to the forum.
Can't see what you're doing wrong myself.
Replace your UV bulb, just in case. They only last a few months sometimes, and it may seem to be working but not emitting the correct levels.
And good luck finding a vet.
Poor little guy, I really hope he perks up soon.
 

Atreides

New Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2014
Messages
6
Thank you all. He's neither better nor worse. Vet said he had some parasites so we're going to treat him for that, although we're not sure that's the cause of the problem.
 

Tidgy's Dad

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2015
Messages
48,238
Location (City and/or State)
Fes, Morocco
Thank you all. He's neither better nor worse. Vet said he had some parasites so we're going to treat him for that, although we're not sure that's the cause of the problem.
Hope it works out for him... and you.
Poor little guy.
 

WillTort2

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2011
Messages
1,250
I'm a little concerned about the 1/3 sand part of your substrate. Most topsoil already has a portion of sand included. Too much sand can cause impaction in the intestines.

I would try a mix of coco coir and top soil. With coco coir if the tort does eat some it will pass through.

If your lights are more than 3 months old, I would replace the solar glo. Or if weather permits get the tortoise some outdoor time.

10 minutes seems too short for a soaking time, I would aim for 20 minutes making sure to keep the water warm. I start at about 94 degrees and after 15 minutes I add a little more warm water. Ideally, when placed in the warm water your tort will extend all 4 legs and fully relax. As the water cools down the tort will scramble trying to get out of the cooler water.

Add more variety to the diet. Add more weeds, also escarole and radicchio, and as summer approaches add mulberry tree leaves, grape leaves, and even more weeds.

Good luck!
 

puffy137

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
1,283
I think my circumstances make my experience with greeks unusual. but here goes. They have plenty of sunlight, they live on mostly romaine lettuce, they seldom have a bath ,let alone a soak, they don't like water. They are only fed once a day, they are breeding successfully. The live on sandy/ dusty ground ,the heat here ensures its pretty pathogen free. I have absolutely no knowledge of keeping tortoises in an artificial set up , as you will have gathered. I think the nearest we can get to keeping them as near as possible in their natural environments will do a lot to maintain their health.
 

Tidgy's Dad

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2015
Messages
48,238
Location (City and/or State)
Fes, Morocco
My Tidgy is a Greek, but not an ibera.
She loves the sun, loves broad leaved weeds and is only slightly fond of romaine, loves baths, soaks and showers, eats too much throughout the day and doesn't get the chance to breed . She's too young anyway.
She's not natural and not normal.
But I think she's healthy and happy.
 

Atreides

New Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2014
Messages
6
Thanks for all your input! :)
He's perked up a bit but he's clearly still sick. We're still trying our best. He's still on towels but I think that depresses him XD so we're changing him back to soil in a few days. I think we'll do all soil, no sand. The soil gets pretty dusty by itself eventually anyway (even though we mist it to no end).
Again thank you very much!
 

Tidgy's Dad

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2015
Messages
48,238
Location (City and/or State)
Fes, Morocco
Glad to hear that he's perked up a little. they can be very tough.
Soil and no sand is better, I think.
It's spring, see if you can give him lots of lovely sunshine.
 

New Posts

Top