Greedy tortoise? Or is that normal?

[tootiturtle]

Hey gentlemen.

Few days ago, I was out in the street doing some work. While I was on the way back home, I found a small pet shop keeping dogs, rabbits etc. I asked if he had a tortoise, he took one out of the cage (1 year old) and showed it to me. Of course, it was in a horrible condition rabbits over it, in a small dirty cage :S. So, I decided to save it from this inhuman torture, went back home, got money and bought it!!

But when I got him home, he was already ready to eat!

He eats up to 3 whole Roman lettuces per day! He eats cucumber too, he's too open for eating, despite his age which is 1 year only!

My other older turtle which is 5 years, same species ( Egyptian tortoise ) eats about 4 rings of cucumber per day.

Is this normal for a young one or what could be the reason?

 

[tortoisenerd]

Can you show us photos of both of the tortoises so someone can confirm age & breed? Is it 3 romaine leaves or 3 heads of romaine? Romaine really isn't ideal. I recommend a fresh diet of weeds and greens. If you don't have a chemical free yard, spring mix without spinach is a good start to a diet, mixing in other dark leafy greens. Cucumber is also a poor choice. Both are so low in nutrition and high in water content that he might just be needed more calories, especially if he is underweight. For an example, my tort eats a pile of greens about his size once a day. I recommend you work on improving the diet for both torts--feed a nice variety of dark leafy greens, weeds, etc. Their diet should have many many more than two things in it. Think more like 20. Can you tell us a little about their care too? Thanks for taking this tort home! Sounds like you really care. How long have you had him? Has he been to the vet for a check up and fecal test yet? Is he quarantined from your other tort?

 

[tootiturtle]

I ll try to organize my reply.

Here's the picture of both. The bigger one is Tooti which I had him for 4 months now, he's almost 5 years old or that's what I was told. The smaller one is Sunny who is almost 1 year old, had him for a week now.

They are 100% confirmed Egyptian tortoises. Tooti is a male, but Sunny is still unknown, however we think it's a she since his tail is too small, but it could be due to he's small in age too.

He eats 3 Romanian Lettuces , whole ones. I don't know what is Romanie heads.

We don't have a yard with greens. But all I can tell you is that, the greens is very limited near us even in big grocery markets. They offer only traditional greens that are eaten by people. Eg: Spinach, cucumber, lettuce (iceberg & romanian) Broccoli, Parsley etc. I have read health care sheets about Egyptian tortoises but I can't really find the names of the food they require because I lack both their real names in market or they aren't available. Even popular food such as Dandelions I don't know it's name and it's not present. Also, we lack places that have canned reptile food or care etc...
However, if you can help me with finding their food in Egypt, I wont mind it.

I keep them indoors because outside is too hot. I open the windows to allow some UV from the sun inside for about 2 hours a day. I know it's not enough, but I don't have the facilities to keep them out, sorry.

Both are pretty healthy and make feces normally. However, the bigger one haven't made for a few days now, but there aren't any signs for problems.

They don't seem aggressive towards each other, they smell each other occasionally but I don't understand what they mean by this! They also sleep together, near each other.

Hope I have provided enough information, waiting for your reply, sir.

Mustafa.

 

[hpfirework]

I am also sometimes confused when people talking about tortoise diet.

"Romaine really isn't ideal. I recommend a fresh diet of weeds and greens." But, isn't Romaine one of greens?

I am very cautious of feeding dandelions, because here in the America, people hate dandelions. They use all sorts of herbicide specially designed to target dandelions.

Can you show us photos of both of the tortoises so someone can confirm age & breed? Is it 3 romaine leaves or 3 heads of romaine? Romaine really isn't ideal. I recommend a fresh diet of weeds and greens. If you don't have a chemical free yard, spring mix without spinach is a good start to a diet, mixing in other dark leafy greens. Cucumber is also a poor choice. Both are so low in nutrition and high in water content that he might just be needed more calories, especially if he is underweight. For an example, my tort eats a pile of greens about his size once a day. I recommend you work on improving the diet for both torts--feed a nice variety of dark leafy greens, weeds, etc. Their diet should have many many more than two things in it. Think more like 20. Can you tell us a little about their care too? Thanks for taking this tort home! Sounds like you really care. How long have you had him? Has he been to the vet for a check up and fecal test yet? Is he quarantined from your other tort?

 

[dmmj]

greens usually mean stuff like weeds and leaves of variou plants, such as grape leaves, hibiscus leaves mullberry leaves, fig leaves and so on and so on, I don't keep egyptians myself but I would imagine their diet is closely related to sulcs, leopard and others that eat weeeds and grrens. lettuce is considered a vegetable and therefore not a good choiuce for tortoises in general.

 

[tootiturtle]

But in my eyes, he seems to love eating it. He won't stop doing it and it's so lovely. My other tort eats nothing but Cucumber. What can I do ?

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

But in my eyes, he seems to love eating it. He won't stop doing it and it's so lovely. My other tort eats nothing but Cucumber. What can I do ?

Offer them only tortoise-healthy foods...possibly they'll refuse to eat for a day or two, but when they get hungry enough, they'll start eating whatever you offer!

I think I recall that you live in the Middle East, somewhere, so you might look around and gather local weeds, cacti and succulents...the native wild tortoises are eating something...offer them these native plants!

Also, get seeds of heathy things and grow some of their feed.

 

[tootiturtle]

Yes, I live in Egypt but not in a desert. I wish I could follow what you said, but I live in a city, and unfortunately there isn't a place near by suitable for growing nor the time to grow it! So, I m trying to find the best food for them available in the egyptian grocery market which I cant seem to find yet

Can someone please offer me some names perhaps in arabic or english that could be healthy for them and better than lettuce and cucmber? Arabic preferred please because I don't have much knowledge of greens. I tried googling them, but my mother said she never seen these things before in the market.

Waiting for your reply, gentlemen!

 

[Kristina]

I don't think there are many members here who speak arabic. Try googling some of the names, and looking at pictures, and compare the pictures to what is available in the market.

 

[tootiturtle]

Well today, I managed to get the small one to eat grape vine or perhaps its called grape leaves. He seems to be open to anything that is green! But the older one seems to stick to cucumber only . Should I try to make him hungry to force him to eat other green stuff?

 

[tortoisenerd]

Yes, there is nothing wrong with feeding him only good food for days at a time and he will turn around. When I said leaf vs. head, the head is the whole bunch of romaine they sell at the store, which may have a dozen leaves on it:

head: http://forkitover.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/s_romaine_heart_lettuce.jpg

this photo shows four leaves: http://www.atlantisfound.com/gardens/plants/vegetables/lettuce_romaine_14990.jpg

I would go to your grocery store and report back everything they have. Google the images for greens such as endive, mustard, dandelion, etc. See if they have any bags or plastic tubs of lettuces and report back what is in it. The best route however is to grow greens from seeds in your home. Use cat litter pans or other planter boxes, organic soil, and seeds for lettuces and veggies (feed the greens, excluding tomato greens which are toxic). Weeds such as dandelion are a great food source for tortoises. You just want to avoid any that are sprayed with chemicals, such as at any public area. That is why you either need to buy organic from the store or grow your own. Romaine would be fine as part of a varied diet, but two foods is far from a varied diet. There are other greens that are darker and leafier. You want to look for dark greens because they have higher nutrition. The white crunchy stem part of romaine is the least nutritious, although great for hydration.

It is very very tough to open a window and have any usable UVB come through it unless the sun is shining right at the angle through the open window and the tortoises are directly near it. Can you take them out near sunrise or sunset at the coolest parts of the day? What are the temperatures like outdoors where you live? If you can't get them outside, you need to provide a UVB bulb. A tube bulb will put off minimal heat, as I assume your house is also warm so you don't need to provide them much if any heat. You need pure calcium powder sprinkled over the greens for them daily. You can buy it at human health food stores, or pet stores (don't buy one that adds D3).

 

[tootiturtle]

So, yes he eats 3 leaves when I saw the picture. Growing greens is far impossible for me now.
Today, I tested. I added grape leaves, but he eats about half a one then turns for lettuce.

I ll post here again once I report whats present in the largest grocery near us. I have some calcium powder with D3, but I don't understand why is it harmful to have D3 in it?

UV bulbs are too expensive for me around 500 L.E and that's the money I get in a whole month
The sun shines only at the balcony, but that's where they start eating the floor, so that's why I am getting mad.
I cant provide them proper UV light !! :S
What could I do about this? I m studying and I don't have that much time to get them for a walk or so. But I ll try to see the greens and tell their names!

 

[egyptiandan]

Can you post bottom shell (plastron) pictures to confirm the sex of the 2 of them?
Tooti is about 6 years old and Sunny is about 5 years old.

Danny

 

[tortoisenerd]

I know this may be hard for you to come to terms with, but in my opinion, if you can't provide what they need to live happy healthy lives, you either need to find a way to get the items, get more hours at work or a second job, or think about finding them a home where the owner can afford what they need. You should also have money saved for potential vet bills and to have a tortoise vet that your torts haev care established with in case of an emergency. Tort ownership goes past just being able to afford the cost of the torts and the initial enclosures.

You can grow greens from seeds in trays in your apartment with organic soil. You may be able to order a UVB bulb online. What type is 500 L.E. ($88 U.S. dollars)? That is more than anything in the U.S., but I guess if they import them... I hope at least that buys a Mercury Vapor bulb and not a much inferior UVB tube.

If a tortoise gets D3 in a powder, that is in addition to what they make themselves from the UVB, so it can become toxic as D3 is fat soluble (not water soluble like calcium, such that they pee out any extra). Its hard to know how much D3 is too much, so I err on the side of caution and just provide UVB plus pure calcium. If your torts aren't getting UVB now, the D3 is probably a very good idea though. I don't have the information as to what is a good dose, but start a new thread if you haven't had good information already on that topic.

Three leaves of romaine is a good amount. My tort can eat a pile of torn up greens larger than he is. Stuff like romaine that is low nutrition will have the tort eat even more. I'd feed the tops where it is leafy and not the white crunchy bits. Yes, please do report back what greens/lettuces you can buy at the store. They may have a bagged lettuce mix with some good variety. Any chemical free area to pull weeds?

 

[tootiturtle]

Yeah, I don't put them in the sun balcony much due to the very high temperature outside. I ll add D3 to their food, thank you.

Guys I ll update the thread called WHATs WRONG WITH MY TORTOISE. Please post there and THANKS A LOT! I love you guys!