Good news and bad news about new tort

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laney

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Terry Allan Hall said:
Fresh (unsalted) pumpkin seeds, finely chopped and mixed with a little of the pumpkin "meat", will re-deworm her considerably. My torts get this once a month, and love it...and I love their worm-free condition.

Cool :)
Harley and Yoshi loved the pumpkin they got at Halloween so I will start that as a monthly treat with them all.
The next task is to find a pumpkin lol.
I got the meds and bought some strawberries, I tried to get her to taste a little bit without anything in it to see that it was nice but she wouldn't look at it :(I've left a tiny (unmediated) piece in her enclosure so that she gets a taste for it first, hopefully it will disappear when I'm not looking ;)
Poor baby was trying to dig but there's only paper with a tiny sprinkle of coir so it isn't very comfortable for her at the moment. She got a soak and only one worm came out but it was still alive so I really need her to take the rest of her meds! But we will persist :)
Thanks for everyone's help, it's a new step in the learning curve.


Lol unmedicated not unmeditated doh!!
 

biochemnerd808

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Your poor tortoise! That is indeed a heavy parasite load (btw, worms = one kind of parasite). One of my rescues was pooping solid balls of worms, and it took 5 treatments with fenbendazole (the active ingredient that will kill nematodes such as pictured) to clear them up. As someone mentioned above, pumpkin will not be enough to treat.

Since you live in the UK, I am not sure of the brand name of the medication available, BUT the active ingredient you want to use is fenbendazole. It comes as a paste for horses, and the proper dosage is easiest to calculate for the 10% paste. Fenbendazole is very safe, and very effective. The medication is best given rolled up in a lettuce leaf 'cigar' - then after the dose has been eaten, make sure to soak daily (scrub out the soaking dish or discard after each soak), since fenbendazole will ruin her appetite for a few days. The best way to describe it is that she will act like she is nauseated. Then you will need to re-treat after 10-11 days (don't wait longer - you want the worm eggs in her gut to hatch, but not yet lay new eggs). Then wait about 4 weeks, have a fecal exam done (in our case I could still see worms with the naked eye), and if necessary, re-treat with a set of two doses. You can private message me if you have any questions about dosage - I hesitate to post anything publicly, because I don't want folks self-treating without proper information.

Make sure the vet does NOT prescribe ivermectin (stromectol) - this will kill the tortoise.

Good luck, she is in good hands with you!


If giving the fenbendazole inside food doesn't work out, you can always give it to her directly with a syringe (without a needle) - just use a wood skewer (blunt end) to gently open her beak a little, and pop the syringe tip in from the side, then slowly express the panacur into her mouth.
 

Terry Allan Hall

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laney said:
Terry Allan Hall said:
Fresh (unsalted) pumpkin seeds, finely chopped and mixed with a little of the pumpkin "meat", will re-deworm her considerably. My torts get this once a month, and love it...and I love their worm-free condition.

Cool :)
Harley and Yoshi loved the pumpkin they got at Halloween so I will start that as a monthly treat with them all.
The next task is to find a pumpkin lol.
I got the meds and bought some strawberries, I tried to get her to taste a little bit without anything in it to see that it was nice but she wouldn't look at it :(I've left a tiny (unmediated) piece in her enclosure so that she gets a taste for it first, hopefully it will disappear when I'm not looking ;)
Poor baby was trying to dig but there's only paper with a tiny sprinkle of coir so it isn't very comfortable for her at the moment. She got a soak and only one worm came out but it was still alive so I really need her to take the rest of her meds! But we will persist :)
Thanks for everyone's help, it's a new step in the learning curve.


Lol unmedicated not unmeditated doh!!



What I did was buy enough pumpkins (3) back around Halloween to make up twelve "doses" and freeze 'em. You might try health food stores for raw unsalted pumpkin seed and grind rhem into a coarse powder, in a food processor, and mix with some canned pumpkin.

Don't know if pumpkin seeds alone would clean your tortoise of such a heavy infestation (but for lighter loads they work quite well), but they'll keep her cleaned out afterwards. Also, gourd seeds work, too.

My ancestors have used pumpkin and gourd seeds as a natural vermifuge for centuries because they work, and don't have the side effects of some "modern" medications. :cool:
 

laney

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biochemnerd808 said:
Your poor tortoise! That is indeed a heavy parasite load (btw, worms = one kind of parasite). One of my rescues was pooping solid balls of worms, and it took 5 treatments with fenbendazole (the active ingredient that will kill nematodes such as pictured) to clear them up. As someone mentioned above, pumpkin will not be enough to treat.

Since you live in the UK, I am not sure of the brand name of the medication available, BUT the active ingredient you want to use is fenbendazole. It comes as a paste for horses, and the proper dosage is easiest to calculate for the 10% paste. Fenbendazole is very safe, and very effective. The medication is best given rolled up in a lettuce leaf 'cigar' - then after the dose has been eaten, make sure to soak daily (scrub out the soaking dish or discard after each soak), since fenbendazole will ruin her appetite for a few days. The best way to describe it is that she will act like she is nauseated. Then you will need to re-treat after 10-11 days (don't wait longer - you want the worm eggs in her gut to hatch, but not yet lay new eggs). Then wait about 4 weeks, have a fecal exam done (in our case I could still see worms with the naked eye), and if necessary, re-treat with a set of two doses. You can private message me if you have any questions about dosage - I hesitate to post anything publicly, because I don't want folks self-treating without proper information.

Make sure the vet does NOT prescribe ivermectin (stromectol) - this will kill the tortoise.

Good luck, she is in good hands with you!


If giving the fenbendazole inside food doesn't work out, you can always give it to her directly with a syringe (without a needle) - just use a wood skewer (blunt end) to gently open her beak a little, and pop the syringe tip in from the side, then slowly express the panacur into her mouth.



Thanks Katie :)
It's great having contact with such experienced people.
So do you think the panacur won't do the trick and I should try something with fenbendazole? If yes should I continue with the panacur in 2 weeks or just switch then? I saw one worm or parasite in her soak last night which is a big improvement but it was still alive.


Terry Allan Hall said:
What I did was buy enough pumpkins (3) back around Halloween to make up twelve "doses" and freeze 'em. You might try health food stores for raw unsalted pumpkin seed and grind rhem into a coarse powder, in a food processor, and mix with some canned pumpkin.

Don't know if pumpkin seeds alone would clean your tortoise of such a heavy infestation (but for lighter loads they work quite well), but they'll keep her cleaned out afterwards. Also, gourd seeds work, too.

My ancestors have used pumpkin and gourd seeds as a natural vermifuge for centuries because they work, and don't have the side effects of some "modern" medications. :cool:

Yeah I'm with ya, it won't sort this issue but once she is better it will be a good 'mini wormer' or kind of preventative :)
I will have a look in the health stores and if I find I will freeze :)
Thanks


Aww little Yoshi was a complete angel he just opened his mouth for the syringe like a baby bird and took his wopping dose of 0.06 ml was so cute I think he regretted it after he tasted it and he had a little milk moustache :) <3
 

mctlong

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laney said:
So do you think the panacur won't do the trick and I should try something with fenbendazole? If yes should I continue with the panacur in 2 weeks or just switch then? I saw one worm or parasite in her soak last night which is a big improvement but it was still alive.

Panacur is fenbendazole. Panacur is the name of the brand, fenbendazole is the active ingredient.
 

laney

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mctlong said:
Panacur is fenbendazole. Panacur is the name of the brand, fenbendazole is the active ingredient.

Phew that's good news. Just need her to take it, little rascal wont eat anything I've given her after she clocked me hiding it in her food. Her plate now contains the naughty foods she shouldn't get often that she should demolish (but won't) all injected with tiny amounts of medicine. Hopefully having nothing else will make her eat it. I don't want to stress her by trying to get it down her throat again but it might come to that, even the vet said she had had it down her throat before and she knew exactly what was coming hence why he only got 1.5ml down her :s
 

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I could not get a tort to take the worm med in ANY delectable, sinful food I tried. So, I took him to the vet and he tube fed the dose. I took him back in 10 days and he repeated it. That is another option.
Then you want to take a fecal sample in about 4 weeks later (according to my helper, Katie!).

The vet has the hook and the skill to open the mouth. That is the key.
At this point she has had part of one dose. Why don't you have the vet give the second one in 10 days (from the first)? Then watch the stool, if visibly clear, take the fecal in 4 weeks later to be sure. If not clear, repeat the process with the vet giving two more doses, 10d apart.
Make it easy on yourself and your tort!
 

laney

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lynnedit said:
I could not get a tort to take the worm med in ANY delectable, sinful food I tried. So, I took him to the vet and he tube fed the dose. I took him back in 10 days and he repeated it. That is another option.
Then you want to take a fecal sample in about 4 weeks later (according to my helper, Katie!).

The vet has the hook and the skill to open the mouth. That is the key.
At this point she has had part of one dose. Why don't you have the vet give the second one in 10 days (from the first)? Then watch the stool, if visibly clear, take the fecal in 4 weeks later to be sure. If not clear, repeat the process with the vet giving two more doses, 10d apart.
Make it easy on yourself and your tort!

Yeah I think I will take her back and get him to do it, I was just worried the hook was going to hurt her mouth. He got it open for half the dose and she managed to wriggle out of it and then there was no way in hell she was letting him do that again lol.
So is the tube way similar to the syringe way (just further down her throat)? Or does she need sedated?
I think part of the reason that she is not taking it in food is maybe because the meds has put her off food a bit, I read somewhere it can do that?? In future if I need I think I will try getting hold of the granules or paste.
Gotta love yoshi's innocence though, he just stuck his head in the air and was like 'aaaaa' hehe
 

laney

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Terry Allan Hall said:
Wonder if you could mix a dose into some canned pumpkin...torts get excited over any red or orange food, as a rule.

I've never seen canned pumpkin here before but I will do a search for it as its worth a try to get the tiny bit she missed into her before the next dose.
The vet said he has never seen a tort refuse a strawberry (red) and she wouldn't even sniff it but she is nervous with everything that's new for her. I'm gona have a look online for canned pumpkin in the local supermarkets now, thanks :)
 

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The first vet I took Sheldon too was an idiot with medicines (cleared out his gut of every living thing), but he knew how to get his mouth open. You clamp two fingers behind the head so it can't retract. Then someone else grabs a small plastic card (something just flexible enough to fold in half).
pgcst940.jpg


At the middle of the crease, cut out a tiny hole just big enough for the syringe, and pry it into your tort's mouth. The plastic will then open, forcing their jaw open and leaving an opening to shove a soft, flexible, plastic syringe into their throat. The syringe should go past the mouth. They have no choice then but to take all the meds.

... of course, sometimes they find a way to spit it all out. But it's less harmful than a hook and it won't leave marks anywhere.
 

biochemnerd808

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Lynne and I just got to dose her new rescued tortoise with panacur this week! She did NOT want to take it, and she is SO strong... finally by having Lynne poke her back end, to make her relax her front legs a little so I could pry them open... then with a wooden skewer caaaaaarefully pried her beak open, and Lynne quickly put the tip of the syringe in. Her head was too far in her shell to get ahold of it (and that would have been too traumatizing anyway)... it took a bit, but worked in the end. If your vet can't do it alone, maybe he can get a helper to help, or you can?

Look at it this way: a little bit of damage to her beak (which will grow back) is far less damaging to her than the long-term health repercussions from untreated parasites...

Good luck, it is so nice to see a person who is willing to take their critter to the vet and get the necessary treatment! You're a good tortoise momma...
 

pepsiandjac

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laney said:
Terry Allan Hall said:
Wonder if you could mix a dose into some canned pumpkin...torts get excited over any red or orange food, as a rule.

I've never seen canned pumpkin here before but I will do a search for it as its worth a try to get the tiny bit she missed into her before the next dose.
The vet said he has never seen a tort refuse a strawberry (red) and she wouldn't even sniff it but she is nervous with everything that's new for her. I'm gona have a look online for canned pumpkin in the local supermarkets now, thanks :)
Laney I don't know if you've found canned pumpkin yet but i found this on amazon http://www.amazon.co.uk/100-Pure-Canned-Pumpkin-425g/dp/B0095R7GKQ
 

laney

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lynnedit

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LOL, I can imagine some of the conversations you had. Hope you get it quickly and that your tort will take his medication in it! Be sure to wrap it in his favorite piece of green/weed.
 

mctlong

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What happened to this one? Did you ever get her to take her medicine and does she have a name yet?
 

laney

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mctlong said:
What happened to this one? Did you ever get her to take her medicine and does she have a name yet?

Hey I have started a newer thread I'm not sure how to link it in here its titled "wrestling with stuborn tort"
Let me know if you can't find it and I will link it here when I get to a pc.
Thanks for asking :)


Still no name :( got lots of boy names :s
 

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Things we used for prying open tort mouths-Nail pick from nail care set. Piece of credit card.
If you can't get the pumpkin try baby food puree like carrots, squash etc.
Strawberries are usually pretty tempting especially as they don't normally get them.
For my Bells Hinge back tortoises I have to inject the Fenbendazole paste into the strawberry and then leave and they will eat it.I do a generous dose as its hard to over dose this drug and if they don't eat all of strawberry chances are they got enough still.(one of my bells needs a pinkie mouse containing dose but this is only option for a protein eating species so not good for Russian)


I know one guy that offers a piece of strawberry and quickly squirts the paste into open mouth as they are taking a bite.

Best of luck
 
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