Golden Greek Enclosure and Calcium

Lindsinic

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I don't mean to throw a huge bout of confusion into everything, but I have a Golden Greek hatchling. I recently took him to a reputable exotic pet veterinarian.

I was confused because the place I got Rocky from advised me to mist the tank each day, give him warm soaks each day, etc. Create a moist, humid environment basically. However, I had read something completely contradictory in a Reptile Magazine online article. This particular article explained that Golden Greeks are, in fact, a desert species adapted to dry, hot climates. Too much moisture for these tortoises can cause shell rot.

I brought this up to the vet and she explained that a tortoise will thrive best if the captive habitat mimics its natural habitat. And she said Reptile Magazine is a reputable and trustworthy source for information. She recommended that a very shallow, accessible water dish (changed at least once daily to remain fresh) be available to Rocky if he is parched. A good deal of moisture will be obtained through food...especially since we rinse them before feeding. A bath soak is only necessary once every 3 days. She mentioned the washable reptile carpet or even newspaper in most of enclosure with a small space fir deeper substrate.

We had a custom 3'x6' tortoise table built and we are using one CHE bulb centered over habitat (always on) and a 100W basking/UV bulb (on 12 hour timer) to one side. It is critical that you get your basking/UV bulb tested (our vet does it for free) so that they can tell you the exact height that it should be above your tortoise.

Main area is lined with reptile carpet and his "house" has some deep coconut fiber for burrowing at night.

The one thing we are still struggling with is calcium supplementing. I know that too little is harmful and too much is harmful. Our current powder has dosage directions of 1/2 tsp. daily per pound of food. Rocky is a tiny guy, he eats a minuscule fraction of a pound. If I could find a calcium powder that has dosage instructions per weight of tortoise that would be so much easier. I can just keep up on Rocky's weight and I'll always know he's getting a safe amount of calcium. If ANYONE knows of such a calcium powder please share.

Rocky moved into his new digs today and he's been so much more active than he was in his large glass tank. Seems to be happy exploring. If anyone sees any way to improve his home please let me know. See pic.
 

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daniellenc

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So I have some disappointing news......your vet meant well but doesn't know much about caring for a tortoise hatchling which is very different then caring for an adult and why so many pyramid and don't make it. I've linked some all in one threads to help you get started:

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/closed-chambers.32333/
Closed chambers and humidity are actually needed. Your vet hasn't raised tortoises from an egg s/he studied them in an outdated book so definitely read this thread with an open mind it comes from trial and error you can now avoid thanks to @Tom

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/
These are a collection of others easy to make well intentioned beginner mistakes. Again to help you not make them.

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/the-tortoise-chef.153728/
This is where I stalked all different feeding ideas which has really helped me provide variety I wouldn't have thought of.

If you spend a day or two reading you'll have your enclosure fixed up in no time to be better suited for a baby. Also, i'd be soaking daily if you're ble it will pay off.
 

Markw84

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@daniellenc has already given some good thing to consider and read. I also agree that your vet is giving old, outdated advice very similar to what I can remember saying in talks on tortoise I used to give over 30 years ago. It took me a long time to find out how wrong I was and this forum was a huge step in the final parts of that learning process.

Tortoises are not desert animals. Tortoises are animals that have adapted over thousands of years, ways to survive in desert like conditions while most animals cannot. Those "deserts" or savannahs or grasslands were not like that when tortoises first colonized those areas. As desertification increased and mammals became dominant, the tortoises found ways to survive the tough conditions and wait out the coming of the rains when they could live and thrive. The mammals out-competed and predated them in the more favorable climate areas. But the tortoises found ways to survive in areas where the mammals moved on to better, more suitable year-round climates. All they needed was about 1/3 to 1/2 the year to be wet and humid and allow the plant growth to come back. The rest of the year, they hide from their environment. A unique and successful survival tactic.

So when your vet - or anyone - tells you to duplicate their "natural habitat", what does that mean? The dry, hot time of year they have to avoid in the wild or die? Or the rainy season when they thrive and eat and grow and the babies hatch and start their lives with a 3-5 month window to get started before they too have to hide and await next years rains?

You see your tortoise as "happy exploring" in his enclosure you made for him. I would suggest it is a tortoise frantically looking for a place it can hide and feel secure and hide from all that open, hot, dry area. You would never see a tortoise, especially a young tortoise, in the open, in the sun! You would instead have to look hard and long to find one pushed under a bush or in a burrow it dug into moist ground, right next to some bushes. They want and seek out grasslands, and bushes and vegetation they can graze on and puddles to soak in. When the dry season comes and the plants die back, they hide and try to survive by aestivating until life becomes livable again. When the winters come and it get too cold to heat their bodies to metabolize, they hibernate until the spring rains and vegetation returns.

So what do you want to duplicate of their natural habitat? Not the dry season. The will grow unnaturally with food offered without enough moisture or they will die. Not the winter. They will also die as they will not be able to metabolize. We need to learn to duplicate the times of year the tortoise will thrive. Give them plenty of plants. Vegetation to graze on, Water to soak in. Humidity to keep their growing shells hydrated. Substrate that feel natural under their feet and plants to hide in. Then you will have a happy tortoise.
 
Last edited:

Tom

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@daniellenc has already given some good thing to consider and read. I also agree that your vet is giving old, outdated advice very similar to what I can remember saying in talks on tortoise I used to give over 30 years ago. It took me a long time to find out how wrong I was and this forum was a huge step in the final parts of that learning process.

Tortoises are not desert animals. Tortoises are animals that have adapted over thousands of years, ways to survive in desert like conditions while most animals cannot. Those "deserts" or savannahs or grasslands were not like that when tortoises first colonized those areas. As desertification increased and mammals became dominant, the tortoises found ways to survive the tough conditions and wait out the coming of the rains when they could live and thrive. The mammals out-competed and predated them in the more favorable climate areas. But the tortoises found ways to survive in areas where the mammals moved on to better, more suitable year-round climates. All they needed was about 1/3 to 1/2 the year to be wet and humid and allow the plant growth to come back. The rest of the year, they hide from their environment. A unique and successful survival tactic.

So when your vet - or anyone - tells you to duplicate their "natural habitat", what does that mean? The dry, hot time of year they have to avoid in the wild or die? Or the rainy season when they thrive and eat and grow and the babies hatch and start their lives with a 3-5 month window to get started before they too have to hide and await next years rains?

You see your tortoise as "happy exploring" in his enclosure you made for him. I would suggest it is a tortoise frantically looking for a place it can hide and feel secure and hide from all that open, hot, dry area. You would never see a tortoise, especially a young tortoise, in the open, in the sun! You would instead have to look hard and long to find one pushed under a bush or in a burrow it dug into moist ground, right next to some bushes. They want and seek out grasslands, and bushes and vegetation they can graze on and puddles to soak in. When the dry season comes and the plants die back, they hide and try to survive by aestivating until life becomes livable again. When the winters come and it get too cold to heat their bodies to metabolize, they hibernate until the spring rains and vegetation returns.

So what do you want to duplicate of their natural habitat? Not the dry season. The will grow unnaturally with food offered without enough moisture or they will die. Not the winter. They will also die as they will not be able to metabolize. We need to learn to duplicate the times of year the tortoise will thrive. Give them plenty of plants. Vegetation to graze on, Water to soak in. Humidity to keep their growing shells hydrated. Substrate that feel natural under their feet and plants to hide in. Then you will have a happy tortoise.

Best way I've ever seen this explained. #1.
 

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