Frozen Pinky mice for aquatic turtle diet?

Twochis

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I am a new member. I have 2 african side necks that I rescued as hatchlings from a dealer. Although I have not seen it mentioned anywhere, their main diet is defrosted mice pinkies which I feed every third day. I recently added Masuri pellets as a daily treat. I'm sure that most will be horrified by this, but it seems to work for them. They are healthy, happy and active. They live in a 75 gallon tank with overkill filtratrion, uva/uvb lighting and in line heating. I made my own basking platform with a ramp from oak boards that are attached to the tank with aquarium sealant. They are 18 1/2 years old. Does anyone else feed pinkies?
 

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I wouldn't think that eating mostly small mammals would be a very natural diet. But they can be kept easily in the freezer. I don't see why it would be dangerous. Some keepers feed them to some species of tortoise.
I'm sure they can be fed for part of the diet. But why not fish, crustaceans and insects?
Also, I think they eat plants as well.
So it doesn't to me sound like a good diet.
 

Tim Carlisle

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From a purely asthetic point of view... I would be concerned that pinkies would horribly cloud the water as the turtle rips it apart as they typically do.
 

Twochis

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I wouldn't think that eating mostly small mammals would be a very natural diet. But they can be kept easily in the freezer. I don't see why it would be dangerous. Some keepers feed them to some species of tortoise.
I'm sure they can be fed for part of the diet. But why not fish, crustaceans and insects?
Also, I think they eat plants as well.
So it doesn't to me sound like a good diet.
Thanks for your response. From what I've been told, goldfish and minnows are a poor choice of diet. Insects and crustaceans, hard to get in quantity, except crickets which you can not be sure of them being properly fed.
 

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A good brand of turtle sticks is a great staple diet for water turtles. Then I will occasionally offer small bits of cooked chicken/turkey, night crawlers, worms, water plants, e tc.
 

Toddrickfl1

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I give my turtles earthworms from time to time.
 

Twochis

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A good brand of turtle sticks is a great staple diet for water turtles. Then I will occasionally offer small bits of cooked chicken/turkey, night crawlers, worms, water plants, e tc.
I started feeding pinky mice because in Doug Mader's book "Reptile Medicine and Surgery", he considers mice to be a balanced diet with adequate amounts of calcium, fat, protein and vitamins. Also, they are parasite free.
 

TammyJ

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I started feeding pinky mice because in Doug Mader's book "Reptile Medicine and Surgery", he considers mice to be a balanced diet with adequate amounts of calcium, fat, protein and vitamins. Also, they are parasite free.
I occasionally will give my turtles (Jamaican sliders) pink mice, but it's a rare event, in fact just because I have to save the pinkies to feed young snakes. But I don't think pink mice could have much in the way of nutrition or calcium as they are so small with such tiny bones anyway. The turtles do enjoy garden slugs too.
 

Twochis

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I occasionally will give my turtles (Jamaican sliders) pink mice, but it's a rare event, in fact just because I have to save the pinkies to feed young snakes. But I don't think pink mice could have much in the way of nutrition or calcium as they are so small with such tiny bones anyway. The turtles do enjoy garden slugs too.
Thank you for your input. I think most people have no or very little experience with feeding pinkies. Snakes are fed them routinely without question and for them, they are considered to be nutritionally complete. Why not turtles? I realize that they have different nutritional needs, but I think that people should be more open minded about it. The feedback I'm getting is mostly..." I don't think they're good or I don't think it's a balanced diet". I don't mean to sound mean but "thinking" and "knowing" are two different things. I was hoping to get more concrete information from this post. My turtles are a healthy 18 1/2 years old, so I must be doing something right. Has anyone here done nutritional studies with foods other than dry commercial diets?
 

TammyJ

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Thank you for your input. I think most people have no or very little experience with feeding pinkies. Snakes are fed them routinely without question and for them, they are considered to be nutritionally complete. Why not turtles? I realize that they have different nutritional needs, but I think that people should be more open minded about it. The feedback I'm getting is mostly..." I don't think they're good or I don't think it's a balanced diet". I don't mean to sound mean but "thinking" and "knowing" are two different things. I was hoping to get more concrete information from this post. My turtles are a healthy 18 1/2 years old, so I must be doing something right. Has anyone here done nutritional studies with foods other than dry commercial diets?
The amount of nutrition in an adult mouse/adult rat is far greater than that in babies (pinkies) of mice and rats. The size of a snake is taken into consideration when feeding rats or mice, of course. And of course, you can keep snakes forever just feeding them rats or mice! Turtles eat a far more varied diet and we can find natural food for them plus also give them the balanced Zoo Med or whatever good brand of turtles sticks we can get (dry commercial diets). Just commenting and interested here - no expert! I do have a bit of experience with and keep snakes, turtles and iguanas. This site has taught me a great deal especially about turtles and tortoises that I did not know.
 

TammyJ

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Love to see some pictures of your African side neck turtles!
 

Twochis

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The amount of nutrition in an adult mouse/adult rat is far greater than that in babies (pinkies) of mice and rats. The size of a snake is taken into consideration when feeding rats or mice, of course. And of course, you can keep snakes forever just feeding them rats or mice! Turtles eat a far more varied diet and we can find natural food for them plus also give them the balanced Zoo Med or whatever good brand of turtles sticks we can get (dry commercial diets). Just commenting and interested here - no expert! I do have a bit of experience with and keep snakes, turtles and iguanas. This site has taught me a great deal especially about turtles and tortoises that I did not know.
Thank you. Your comment is most appreciated!
 
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The thing about feeding pinkies to snakes is that...

1) Snakes are obligate carnivores. They don't eat anything but animal matter. That's not really the same thing as turtles, which are omnivores.

2) While pinkies might not be the ideal food even for snakes, most peoples' pet snakes pretty soon get large enough to start taking larger (and more nutritious) mice.

So while I'm not really opposed to feeding mice to turtles that can handle a higher protein diet, it's probably not a good idea to make mice the staple. Also, IF one one is going to make mice a staple diet, it's probably better to go with adult mice rather than pinkies. As gross as it sounds, maybe chop them up in a blender and mix them with the veggies? Anyway, my point is that pinkies really are sort of garbage. They're not too bad once in a while, but I wouldn't make them the staple food and it would be better to go with adult mice if at all possible.
 
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Markw84

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I am a new member. I have 2 african side necks that I rescued as hatchlings from a dealer. Although I have not seen it mentioned anywhere, their main diet is defrosted mice pinkies which I feed every third day. I recently added Masuri pellets as a daily treat. I'm sure that most will be horrified by this, but it seems to work for them. They are healthy, happy and active. They live in a 75 gallon tank with overkill filtratrion, uva/uvb lighting and in line heating. I made my own basking platform with a ramp from oak boards that are attached to the tank with aquarium sealant. They are 18 1/2 years old. Does anyone else feed pinkies?

Pinkie mice, or even mice in general are not an ideal diet for aquatic turtles. Although turtles will eagerly scavenge on any animal it finds, with aquatic turtles it will be a very fish based diet for our more carnivorous species like your sidenecks. Rodents are much lower in protein and higher in fats than fish. Rodents tend to average about 19% protein and pinkies would be less - about 13%. Rodents average about 7% fat. Fish average just around 35%-40% protein and normally 1% fat. Snails and crustaceans are also a good part of most aquatic turtle diets and they average over 30% protein and 1% fat.

Your addition of Mazuri pellets is actually a good choice. I feel much better than pinkie mice. Most commercial turtle diets are made to mimic the ratios I show above of "normal" food choices. Mazuri aquatic is 40% protein. It also has a good cal / phos ratio as opposed to any "natural" carnivorous choices which tend to be close to 1 to 1 cal to phosphorus. I use Mazuri aquatic for all my aquatic turtles and have been using it for years. I have turtles I have raised from hatchling that are well over 30 years old and some F5 and F6 generations now.
 

Twochis

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Pinkie mice, or even mice in general are not an ideal diet for aquatic turtles. Although turtles will eagerly scavenge on any animal it finds, with aquatic turtles it will be a very fish based diet for our more carnivorous species like your sidenecks. Rodents are much lower in protein and higher in fats than fish. Rodents tend to average about 19% protein and pinkies would be less - about 13%. Rodents average about 7% fat. Fish average just around 35%-40% protein and normally 1% fat. Snails and crustaceans are also a good part of most aquatic turtle diets and they average over 30% protein and 1% fat.

Your addition of Mazuri pellets is actually a good choice. I feel much better than pinkie mice. Most commercial turtle diets are made to mimic the ratios I show above of "normal" food choices. Mazuri aquatic is 40% protein. It also has a good cal / phos ratio as opposed to any "natural" carnivorous choices which tend to be close to 1 to 1 cal to phosphorus. I use Mazuri aquatic for all my aquatic turtles and have been using it for years. I have turtles I have raised from hatchling that are well over 30 years old and some F5 and F6 generations now.
 

Twochis

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Thanks so much for your feedback. I have added Mazuri pellets and mixed greens (the Walmart near me in northern Florida has great bagged mixed greens without any lettuce). My two guys will be 19 years old in a few months. I've had them since they were hatchlings. How do they look to you??20181220_145412.jpg 20181220_145535.jpg
 
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I feed my marine toad 4-6 fuzzies a week ... My worry about introducing them into Darwin's diet is that he would bite them in half, while Beulah, the toad, swallows them whole.

Jamie
 

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It would be a good idea to get them used to eating a commercial diet as part of their overall feeding routine. If you experience a power outage or have to keep your turtles in less than ideal conditions for a while, it would be worth it to have food on hand that doesn't require refrigeration, that you know they'll eat.
 
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