Fluorescent bulb for AP cage

Shaif

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You ROCK.

Thank you. I've sent the info to Ali from Animal Plastics. I might just buy the fixtures and send them to her also.

Incredibly generous of you to share your information and instruction with me and anyone else reading this thread. Many thanks again!

Cheers to some awesome enclosures!
 

Shaif

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Shaif

Not being a pest at all. I'm glad you're being so careful to get it exactly as you feel will work the best.

Sorry if I linked the wrong fixture. The correct one comes up for me with that link. I use the single 46" with mirror reflector.

And I am not trying to say this is the only way to do this right. I am simply sharing what I have found gets the best results for me considering, Heat, proper UVB, and Lighting - that seems to get the best behaviors and growth from the tortoises.

For UVB, I use the single, 46" T5 12% HO with mirror reflector.
For Ambient light I use a double T5 Fluorescent fixture from Lowes with two 5500K 90+CRI tubes.
For Basking I use two 65 watt standard incandescent flood bulbs in a dome fixture
For Heat I use two 100 watt CHE in 10.5" brooder lamps.

View attachment 194338


Mark,

One more question, if you don't mind.

I talked to Todd from Light Your Reptiles. He cautioned me that putting the basking elements near the fluorescents can cause the ballast from the fluorescents to get bad from increased heat exposure at the top of the cage. He also mentioned that his units are a bit harder to mount on the top, as they are made to sit on top of aquarium style setups.

Did you have any issues with these so far?

Thank you again.
 

Markw84

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Mark,

One more question, if you don't mind.

I talked to Todd from Light Your Reptiles. He cautioned me that putting the basking elements near the fluorescents can cause the ballast from the fluorescents to get bad from increased heat exposure at the top of the cage. He also mentioned that his units are a bit harder to mount on the top, as they are made to sit on top of aquarium style setups.

Did you have any issues with these so far?

Thank you again.
Todd certainly know what he is talking about. He is a great source of advice and Info. Heat is the enemy of ballasts and they do generate quite enough heat of their own to become problematic in the heating equation of the enclosure. I need to look at a fluorescent fixture with external ballasts that could be mounted outside the enclosure when I redo next time. Ask Todd if he has that available. I will as well next time I talk to him.

Directly to your question - I mount fairly low watt (65) flood bulbs in domed, reflector fixtures just as most all do here. Those hang perhaps 6" below and just to the side of the fluorescents. WIth the design of a flood bulb, the light, and most heat is directed down and the same is true with those domed fixtures, Because of this, although Todd's concerns are certainly valid, I have experienced no issues with this placement so far.
 

jaizei

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Todd certainly know what he is talking about. He is a great source of advice and Info. Heat is the enemy of ballasts and they do generate quite enough heat of their own to become problematic in the heating equation of the enclosure. I need to look at a fluorescent fixture with external ballasts that could be mounted outside the enclosure when I redo next time. Ask Todd if he has that available. I will as well next time I talk to him.

Directly to your question - I mount fairly low watt (65) flood bulbs in domed, reflector fixtures just as most all do here. Those hang perhaps 6" below and just to the side of the fluorescents. WIth the design of a flood bulb, the light, and most heat is directed down and the same is true with those domed fixtures, Because of this, although Todd's concerns are certainly valid, I have experienced no issues with this placement so far.

http://www.exo-terra.com/en/products/light_unit.php
 

britsip

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As someone with an large AP cage, I highly suggest using a radiant heat panel on a thermostat. The cage holds heat and humidity really well, but they are a beast to raise the overall ambient temperature. I have a 160watt radiant heat panel mounted on the opposite side of the basking light that runs to the middle and it keeps everything balanced and heated day/night. The cages are so easy to drill into that modifying yourself/adding fixtures is the way to go.
 

Markw84

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As someone with an large AP cage, I highly suggest using a radiant heat panel on a thermostat. The cage holds heat and humidity really well, but they are a beast to raise the overall ambient temperature. I have a 160watt radiant heat panel mounted on the opposite side of the basking light that runs to the middle and it keeps everything balanced and heated day/night. The cages are so easy to drill into that modifying yourself/adding fixtures is the way to go.
No personal experience with the AP enclosure. It does look good, but most of my concern is around the insulation properties of the plastic, and how well the enclosure will hold heat. In particular since my enclosures are in a dedicated second garage that is my tortoise room. Since it is not heated / air conditioned, the enclosure needs to hold temps when the temperature inside the garage ranges from high 80's in summer to lows of 60f this time of year. So with my fully insulated enclosures, my problem is OVERheating, even this time of year. I use two 100 watt CHE's but they only come on at night. Through the day, the fluorescent ballasts and the basking lights heat the enclosure enough to keep it over 80f.
 

jaizei

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Thanks, @jaizei I've seen those, but have not seen any T5. I love the T5 HO bulbs, Have you seen those at all?

There're some fixtures for aquariums that have external ballast.

If it's a real concern, it wouldn't be that much work to turn a regular fixture into a remote ballasted fixture. Just need an enclosure for the ballast to be mounted in and 18ga wire to the lampholders (& conduit for wire if necessary)
 

Shaif

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Todd certainly know what he is talking about. He is a great source of advice and Info. Heat is the enemy of ballasts and they do generate quite enough heat of their own to become problematic in the heating equation of the enclosure. I need to look at a fluorescent fixture with external ballasts that could be mounted outside the enclosure when I redo next time. Ask Todd if he has that available. I will as well next time I talk to him.

Directly to your question - I mount fairly low watt (65) flood bulbs in domed, reflector fixtures just as most all do here. Those hang perhaps 6" below and just to the side of the fluorescents. WIth the design of a flood bulb, the light, and most heat is directed down and the same is true with those domed fixtures, Because of this, although Todd's concerns are certainly valid, I have experienced no issues with this placement so far.


I've run into a problem with the fabrication of the enclosure. The dome fixtures that I bought from Light Your Reptiles are apparently not ceiling mountable. Does anyone have a work around for that issue? How do you guys mount your dome fixtures? Did I buy the wrong ones?

Thanks so much again. We are getting close!
 

Markw84

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I've run into a problem with the fabrication of the enclosure. The dome fixtures that I bought from Light Your Reptiles are apparently not ceiling mountable. Does anyone have a work around for that issue? How do you guys mount your dome fixtures? Did I buy the wrong ones?

Thanks so much again. We are getting close!
The dome fixtures for basking and CHEs are hung from hooks in the top of the enclosure. I just use cup hooks and hang the fixture I just went out and took a picture for you. Lights are out this late but you can see...

ImageUploadedByTortoise Forum1488867778.474941.jpg
 

Shaif

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Thank you again, Mark. I can't tell you how much I appreciate your direction.
 

Shaif

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Shaif

Not sure how much detail you're after, but since you are doing an 8 foot enclosure the same dimensions of mine, here is a post I did on how I set the lighting up in mine. It is very similar to what @Tom uses with some added learnings about light. If yours is enclosed, I really don't see how you can accomplish all you need with anything much different than this...


If you have an enclosed chamber, I think you will find it impossible to use a MVB without overheating. So most have gone with fluorescent tubes for lighting. So I will have ambient fluorescent tubes for part of my lighting coupled with a regular incandescent FLOOD bulb. (Not SPOT!) The flood bulb also provides the heat for basking. I add to that another fluorescent that is a UVB producing bulb. Your CHE should be on a thermostat and is used solely to maintain the minimum ambient temperature in your enclosure.

With fluorescents, I strive to create a better "natural sunlight" look as possible, so I use a bit more high-end fluorescent tubes from the hardware or home improvement stores. The cheaper bulbs normally will have serious color issues that do not produce a more "natural" light at all. ( I am experimenting with LEDs as well, but really need to be careful as the cheaper ones have horrible colors. But you can get ones with extremely good color balanced light, but they are more expensive.) So with fluorescents, I have gone towards the "daylight" 5000K to 5500K bulbs. In that range, a better bulb will normally have a CRI over 90. I believe the CRI (Color Rendering Index) of a bulb is an important consideration since tortoises are so visual in their behaviors and feeding. A 6000K bulb or higher will be more blue-white and the reds start merging with the oranges as that part of the spectrum is poorly covered in those bulbs. But by adding the incandescent flood, that will add back that part of the spectrum as standard incandescents have CRI's over 95. A good UVB tube and fixture, then completes the lighting setup adding the needed UVB, UVA parts of the spectrum.

SO what do I believe the best setup to provide all this? This is what I use in my 3 foot x 8 foot enclosed, insulated chambers.
2 - 100 watt CHE both wired to the same thermostat set to 81f with probe at the coolest part of the enclosure.
1 - double 4 foot T-5 fluorescent fixture with two daylight 5500K, 92 CRI tubes. On a timer - on for 14 hours a day.
2 - 65 watt incandescent FLOOD bulbs on the same timer as the Fluorescent fixture above. Also, from the timer through a thermostat set to 90f.
1 - 4 foot T5 HO 12% UVB light with reflector fixture on a timer on 5 hours a day 10AM to 3PM.

My chambers will overheat if I do not put the incandescent floods on a thermostat. Since I have the ambient lighting with the fluorescents as bright, I do not mind, in fact I like the basking floods going on and off a few times throughout the day. Just like some clouds blocking the sun part of the day in their home environment in the rainy season when they are most active and growing.

The UVB is not needed for 14 hours, and on a 5 hour cycle will then last much longer and probably not need replacing the bulb for at least 2 years or more. The double fluorescents create the ambient light and are pretty inexpensive.

I center the 4 foot fluorescents 12" apart in the chamber and mount the two floods between them. The floods are about 2 feet apart. This leaves a light gradient towards both ends of the chamber. Your tortoise will appreciate the "darker corners" and mine rest there under plants. So don't try to cover the entire 8 feet with lights! I also have the CHE's mounted, centered front to back 18" from each side.

I also use 2 - 4" x 12" and another 2 - 6" round clay pots planted with overhanging plants for cover in addition to a hide in each end. I think this is vital as tortoises would normally spend a majority of their time hiding under a bush or in a burrow, then coming out to bask and eat. So this gives them all those variables.


Mark, thank you again so much for this help. I've finally got the enclosure set up and have the lights as your schematic. I did a practice run today before putting the torts in. My temps were running too high--90 degrees with just one flood light on.

I've got an 8 x 3 x 2ft pvc enclosure. Anteriorly, there are 2 contiguous 2 ft double fluorescent fixtures with t5 HO 5500k bulbs. Posteriorly, there are 2 contiguous 2 foot single bulb fixtures with 12% uvb bulbs. Should I change/switch/fix? My ambient temps should be 80 and basking 95.

Thanks so much for any help.ImageUploadedByTortoise Forum1492828198.408889.jpg
 

Erik Elvis

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Back from the dead. A lot of helpful info in this thread. @Shaif what was your final configuration? I’m Doing the same cage and am thinking of running 2 36” double bulb fixtures each with a daylight bulb and UV bulb. Todd from lightyourreptiles recommended them as they have an external ballast. Also gonna pop a couple heat panels in there and an incandescent fixture. For basking.
 

Shaif

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Back from the dead. A lot of helpful info in this thread. @Shaif what was your final configuration? I’m Doing the same cage and am thinking of running 2 36” double bulb fixtures each with a daylight bulb and UV bulb. Todd from lightyourreptiles recommended them as they have an external ballast. Also gonna pop a couple heat panels in there and an incandescent fixture. For basking.




That’s Awesome! I have another on order as well. The wait really gets to me though.

I ended up removing one bulb from each of the double fixtures. So basically, I have a single daylight fluorescent and a single UVB fluorescent on each side. I have incandescent basking lights in hoods on each side as well. My fluorescents are 24 inches. I did not use external ballasts and have had no problems so far. My units have been functioning for 1 year.

This works perfectly for me. My setup is indoors in a temp controlled room.

You will definitely need to tweak your system to your requirements, but this kind of setup is very adjustable.


Best of luck to you!
 

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