Floor heating.... Has anyone ever tried the radiant heat under tile?

bigbeaks

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I have two young aldabra, and I'm trying to make plans for heating this winter. Their house is 8' by 8', and is inuslated on all sides, ceiling as well as floor. Our winters in GA can get cold, but not extreme for long periods. I have thought about installing a slate tile floor in their building, and put the radiant heating used in houses in half of it. Has anyone every tried this before with their tortoises?
 

Tom

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I have two young aldabra, and I'm trying to make plans for heating this winter. Their house is 8' by 8', and is inuslated on all sides, ceiling as well as floor. Our winters in GA can get cold, but not extreme for long periods. I have thought about installing a slate tile floor in their building, and put the radiant heating used in houses in half of it. Has anyone every tried this before with their tortoises?

Yes. @Turtulas-Len has first hand experience with this and posted a thread about it a few years back.
 

bigbeaks

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Yeah, wish me luck. No one ever has much to say or offer to help on here much any longer. I searched for the thread but couldn't locate it.
 

wellington

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I looked into it when I was building my second shed. The bad part is things can go wrong, like heating up too hot in that area and blowing it if that happens if anything big and heavy lays on it. If you can build a hide area that doesn't have the heat in it and be sure they won't lay long on it, thrn it might be okay. The company who I talked too, said it would not be able to heat my shed to 80 degrees without added heat. I opted to not spend that kind of money just to have to add more heat. I'm in Chicago though, so we get much colder then you and my shed is much bigger.
 

bigbeaks

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I was only thinking about doing half of my building so they can get off of it if needed. And they have thermostats that you use with them. I will probably just go with a Kane mat since I can't really find any good info on this.
 

wellington

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I was only thinking about doing half of my building so they can get off of it if needed. And they have thermostats that you use with them. I will probably just go with a Kane mat since I can't really find any good info on this.
Yes this is with a thermostat, but the laying of a flat service on it for long periods will/could make that spot get hotter then the rest and could possibly burn the tort and short out the floor. Best thing to do is call a reliable company that makes them and tell them what you want to do and ask their opinion on it and go from there. Also wait to see how it is going for those using them. I believe we have another member that installed it also. I can't remember who it is though.
 

bigbeaks

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What are thoughts on a Kane mat? I've never used them before. When I had sulcata, they had a hide box that was smaller and I heated the entire box like Tom recommends, but this is a building. It is fully insulated though.
 

wellington

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I use a oil filled portable space heater like Tom uses in his night boxes but mine is bigger. 1500 watts tops. I use it on a thermostat. I also run a ceiling fan all winter to push the hot air back down to tort level. Then ever tort has a basking UVB basking light for the day. Because we get colder sometimes and snow, I have a second heater, same kind on a thermostat set at a lower temp incase the first one take a poop on me. The main heaters thermostat is plugged in at an outlet that is only about 6 inches above the floor. This keeps the shed very warm.
The heat mat works but most don't recommend them being used to lay on but to attach to side of hide. That's how I have used mine in the past.
 

Len B

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The under floor heating system I put In Walkers house is a water system not electric. I ran copper tubing zig zaging throughout the entire floor area making sure to have a good diagram of where it was so as not to drive a screw tough it when putting the floor down. To operate it I have a 4 gallon water heater a circulating pump and a water hookup. This was my first tortoise house for keeping a sulcata outside year round I put this system in as a backup source of heat if needed. I have never needed to turn it on, the heat mat, che and oil filled heater work fine and has for years. I don't use thermostats I use rheostats I have found that the placement of these 3 heaters is important to make them work together even if they are all not needed. Sometimes only one or two are needed to keep the house warm. I use the Stansfield mat and they are made to operate about 30 degrees above the ambient temp without a controller, so using a rheostat I can adjust it down to where I want it to stay. I haven't needed to readjust it for years.
 

Alaskamike

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I used a Kane mat once in a shed. If I remember correctly it was made to keep baby pigs warm ? Something like that. It was heavy duty & well made for the price. Worked in an insulated shed well - on a thermostat. Covered 1/2 the floor area & kept the shed at 75f with no problem most of winter. I Was not cheap to run. ( but I was in South Central
Alaska ).

If I was to do it again I'd use an oil filled electric heater - walled off so torts couldn't touch it. They can use up allot of electricity too , but I think easier to regulate and little chance of malfunction.

The in floor heat you refer to is actually quite good ( if your talking about the system used to heat
houses ).

For a shed type , built from scratch , I could be tempted into that. You install the heat tubes in the pea gravel and pour the concrete right over them. You circulate hot water through them. At least that's how ones I've seen worked.

What gives these an advantage is the concrete holds & radiates heat. It will not get hot enough to burn the plastron. If they did, people would be burning their feet on bedroom floors.

You could install the thermostat very close to floor level ( or top of caprice level ) as long as it was protected from the tort. That way you regulate by the temps the tort experiences , not 6' up.

Heat rises. So the in floor in the long run should be much cheaper to operate. But it has to be done in original construction.

Good fortune whatever you choose.
We sure do allot for our torts !
 

Tom

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What are thoughts on a Kane mat? I've never used them before. When I had sulcata, they had a hide box that was smaller and I heated the entire box like Tom recommends, but this is a building. It is fully insulated though.

About 7 years ago, Craig Kane added a couple of redundant safeties to his mats. This made the price go up a little, but the mats have multiple built in safeties now to prevent any kind of failure or overheating.

I think they are a good way to provide heat in overnight quarters for large tortoises. I don't like them mounted to the side walls, because they are not designed to work that way and they aren't very effective that way. Other heating devices should be used for that sort of application, like radiant heat panels. I use the Kane mats in my 4x4 boxes with a RHP overhead and the system works well for me in my insulted boxes. In my larger 4x8' boxes, I feel that the oil-filled radiant heaters serve me better. Either system could be adapted for any size box though. One key element of using the Kane mats is that they really don't warm the air that much, so you need to use them in a well insulated area without a lot of drafty air movement.

For reference, here are the two ways I use this equipment:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/another-night-box-thread.88966/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/double-door-night-box.129054/
 

Tom

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@Turtulas-Len ,
I remember and older thread where you sandwiched a heating element between two tiles. That is what I was referring to above. Am I remembering incorrectly?
 

bigbeaks

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What I was looking at is electrical and you put it under the mortar before installing a tile floor. You use a thermostat with it. My main concern was how long something like this would last these guys because of weight??? I didn't know if their weight would crack tiles over time or not. The building is extremely well insulated, including the floor. I was trying to avoid heating the entire building if possible, but that may not be an option. I had seen where Greg Lindsey uses big heat lamps for these guys, but being in south Florida I can't imagine he has to use them much. Still being young my and relatively small the first winter I may just suck it up and heat the entire building.
 

Len B

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@Turtulas-Len ,
I remember and older thread where you sandwiched a heating element between two tiles. That is what I was referring to above. Am I remembering incorrectly?
You remember correctly, I use them still. I made 2 different types, some using self regulating heat cable and some using flex watt. Both are very low wattage, the 12x12 inch use 8 watts and a 12x24 inch is 15 watts. The largest I made are 16 x32 inch. I don't remember their wattage but it is low.
 

Len B

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Like this is what I've been looking at. There are lots of different types.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/206689289
I like that, it's like a large piece of flexwatt. Concrete is a heat thief so I wouldn't put it directly on concrete. You don"t even have to make it a permanent part of the house floor. You can secure it to a piece of plywood and cover it with tile, laminate flooring, or anything to protect it from tortoise abuse.That way if in the future you ever wanted to move it you can. I like the price also.
 

Tom

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What I was looking at is electrical and you put it under the mortar before installing a tile floor. You use a thermostat with it. My main concern was how long something like this would last these guys because of weight??? I didn't know if their weight would crack tiles over time or not. The building is extremely well insulated, including the floor. I was trying to avoid heating the entire building if possible, but that may not be an option. I had seen where Greg Lindsey uses big heat lamps for these guys, but being in south Florida I can't imagine he has to use them much. Still being young my and relatively small the first winter I may just suck it up and heat the entire building.

I made this mistake with my sulcatas early on. I had a large rubber made shed with three 18x28" Kane heat mats on the bottom and a couple CHEs overhead. Their bellies would be warm and carapace temps would be 65ish on a cold night, but the air would be in the 40s or 50s.

From what I know an aldabra would be more sensitive to lower temps than a sulcata. I think you need to heat the air inside the shed as well as the floor. On the bright side, a warm floor will make heating the air easier.

This is also why I started making my boxes 24" instead of 48" tall. Less dead space to heat. Same principal applies in a walk-in shed. You'll be heating 7 feet of air space that your tortoise doesn't need.
 

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