First time Sulcata owner in the UK

Emmawilly

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Joined
Nov 1, 2020
Messages
161
Location (City and/or State)
Plymouth
Hello. What a wonderful site. I think I've learned more on here in the last 2 months than I did at University! If only I'd discovered you sooner...

I'm based in Plymouth in the South West of England and 3 months ago I acquired an 11 year old Sulcata tortoise. I've made almost every beginner mistake it is possible to make but I'm hoping by reading this forum every day, I'm gradually correcting the mistakes. I've realised that I needed to do much, much more research on this breed of tortoise before I got him, leading to do much guilt and sleepless nights.

Rodney is much loved and much wanted. Rodney now lives outside in an insulated and heated hut inside a heated shed. He has a flap to access the outside in the day time.

These are my questions:
Heating - it is cold in Plymouth at the moment (December). The outside nighttime temperatures range from minus 1 or 2 to plus 5 degrees centigrade (around 30 degrees Fahrenheit). Rodney had a hut inside a shed. He had two tubular heaters on 24/7 in his hut and in the shed I have an oil filled radiator on a thermostat. The night time temperature is therefore around 14 degrees centigrade. Is this too cold? The daytime temps are 20 up to 35 degrees c under the lamp. Outside at this time of year, it is cold, today is bright and sunny but about 7 degrees c.

UV bulb - Rodney has a combined UVA and UVB bulb 160watt on for 12 hours a day. This floods his hut with heat and light and creates a basking spot 30-35 degrees C. (he also still had the tubular heaters and oil filled radiator on thermostat). When we got him in August when the temperatures are much warmer outside here, he came out every day into the garden to graze. Now he spends most of his day under the basking lamp, flat out with his legs sideways like he's been splatted! How can I encourage him to get more exercise? I am worried in case the hotter 160w bulb will scorch his shell (I also have 100w bulb but it doesn't provide enough heat in winter) . What is the minimum distance between the top of the shell and the bulb? I can't pull the bulb up any higher.

Bathing - his previous owner didn't provide water or bathe him. She offered water but said he wasn't interested. I have water in his hut but I very rarely see him take a drink. I have bathed him twice. He passed thick white crumbly urates this week so I think he must be dehydrated. I'm planning to bathe him today and will do this twice a week from now on (no mean feat because the bugger is huge!). What I am worried about is bathing him whilst we have winter here and the possibility of him catching a respiratory infection. Is it OK to bath him and then put him back in the hut? Should I towel him off first? How stressed is this going to make him?

Shell pyramid - Can I get a view on Rodney's shell (see pictures). He has some pyramiding. Possibly caused by dehydration or diet or lighting, I'm not sure. Should I be worried about this?

Humidity - I can't mist the enclosure in winter because of the outside temperatures I'm likely to cause more problems) but I'm think it would be a good idea to mist his shell daily because he's under the lamp so will quickly dry out, so low risk of shell rot. Will this be sufficient until spring when I can commence misting the enclosure too?

Diet - In August, he grazed in the garden at will and although I tried to supplement this with cut up grass/weeds and sprinkling with calcium powder, he wasn't interested. We have a good size garden and grow our own veg and he just bulldozed through to whatever he fancied. Now it's winter, it's wet and cold outside, I'm feeding him in his hut every other day, a mix of grass, romaine lettuce, kale and spring greens. I try to do more grass than anything. I've bought tortoise feed ('grasslands' - recommended on here) he won't touch it, I've bought dengi hifi light (molasses rich hay for horses with laminitis, recommended by my local tortoise santuary as that's what they feed their sulcatas in winter) but he won't touch it either. He does eat the grass/veg mix. Is this OK until Spring when he can graze himself? I feed him an amount the size of his shell, is that too much?

Substrate - I have had him on hay then soil based substrate when I first got him. I've now got him on orchid bark, as recommended on this site. Is that ok?

We got Rodney because we think they are just wonderful creatures. He has brought us so much joy in the short time we've had him, when he walks around the garden he looks both majestic and prehistoric! We want him to be with us for the rest of our lives, future house purchases will bear him and his needs in mind, our other animals like him (apart from the dog, who is scared and leaves him alone), the kids adore him. I check on him several times a day and night (even at 3am to check his hut temperatures haven't dropped). I've made lots of mistakes but I'm trying to get it right now.

I very much appreciate any advice on the above questions and apologise for such a long post.

Best regards, Emma from Plymouth xx

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Maro2Bear

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5 Year Member
Joined
May 29, 2014
Messages
14,713
Location (City and/or State)
Glenn Dale, Maryland, USA
Greetings. Just to touch on the heating question, your nighttime temps @14c (57F) is way too cold. Overall ambient temp in your torts night shed should be closer to 26 C (80F). You need to work on those overnight temps.
 

Emmawilly

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Joined
Nov 1, 2020
Messages
161
Location (City and/or State)
Plymouth
Greetings. Just to touch on the heating question, your nighttime temps @14c (57F) is way too cold. Overall ambient temp in your torts night shed should be closer to 26 C (80F). You need to work on those overnight temps.
Thank you for your reply. I think I sort of knew that, the temperature has only really dropped in the last 2 to 3 weeks. What would be a good solution, what sort of heating should I go for? I've heard of CHE bulbs but I don't really know what that is or what temperature it goes up to. I do know the tubular heaters I have are very weak.
Any suggestions welcome! I'm hoping to improve and learn from you guys.
I have Rodney his bath today and it was very successful. I kept the water warm and topped it up with warm water regularly so he stayed in there for 30 minutes. He wee'd and poo'ed and hopefully hydrated. I'll do it again in a few days time.
Thank you for your reply, I appreciate it.
 

Emmawilly

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Joined
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Messages
161
Location (City and/or State)
Plymouth
This was his bath and this is his hut
 

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Maro2Bear

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5 Year Member
Joined
May 29, 2014
Messages
14,713
Location (City and/or State)
Glenn Dale, Maryland, USA
There are a few ways to heat the inside hut up. If you can get a Kane heat mat for the floor & a Radiant Heat Panel for the inside/roof of the inner house - both connected to a thermostat. You have a large Sully, you don’t really want a hot CHE plopped in there near the carapace.

@JoesMum might be able to better help determine what you have easy access to. Good luck.
 

zolasmum

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
May 19, 2015
Messages
2,047
This was his bath and this is his hut
This was his bath and this is his hut
Hello. What a wonderful site. I think I've learned more on here in the last 2 months than I did at University! If only I'd discovered you sooner...

I'm based in Plymouth in the South West of England and 3 months ago I acquired an 11 year old Sulcata tortoise. I've made almost every beginner mistake it is possible to make but I'm hoping by reading this forum every day, I'm gradually correcting the mistakes. I've realised that I needed to do much, much more research on this breed of tortoise before I got him, leading to do much guilt and sleepless nights.

Rodney is much loved and much wanted. Rodney now lives outside in an insulated and heated hut inside a heated shed. He has a flap to access the outside in the day time.

These are my questions:
Heating - it is cold in Plymouth at the moment (December). The outside nighttime temperatures range from minus 1 or 2 to plus 5 degrees centigrade (around 30 degrees Fahrenheit). Rodney had a hut inside a shed. He had two tubular heaters on 24/7 in his hut and in the shed I have an oil filled radiator on a thermostat. The night time temperature is therefore around 14 degrees centigrade. Is this too cold? The daytime temps are 20 up to 35 degrees c under the lamp. Outside at this time of year, it is cold, today is bright and sunny but about 7 degrees c.

UV bulb - Rodney has a combined UVA and UVB bulb 160watt on for 12 hours a day. This floods his hut with heat and light and creates a basking spot 30-35 degrees C. (he also still had the tubular heaters and oil filled radiator on thermostat). When we got him in August when the temperatures are much warmer outside here, he came out every day into the garden to graze. Now he spends most of his day under the basking lamp, flat out with his legs sideways like he's been splatted! How can I encourage him to get more exercise? I am worried in case the hotter 160w bulb will scorch his shell (I also have 100w bulb but it doesn't provide enough heat in winter) . What is the minimum distance between the top of the shell and the bulb? I can't pull the bulb up any higher.

Bathing - his previous owner didn't provide water or bathe him. She offered water but said he wasn't interested. I have water in his hut but I very rarely see him take a drink. I have bathed him twice. He passed thick white crumbly urates this week so I think he must be dehydrated. I'm planning to bathe him today and will do this twice a week from now on (no mean feat because the bugger is huge!). What I am worried about is bathing him whilst we have winter here and the possibility of him catching a respiratory infection. Is it OK to bath him and then put him back in the hut? Should I towel him off first? How stressed is this going to make him?

Shell pyramid - Can I get a view on Rodney's shell (see pictures). He has some pyramiding. Possibly caused by dehydration or diet or lighting, I'm not sure. Should I be worried about this?

Humidity - I can't mist the enclosure in winter because of the outside temperatures I'm likely to cause more problems) but I'm think it would be a good idea to mist his shell daily because he's under the lamp so will quickly dry out, so low risk of shell rot. Will this be sufficient until spring when I can commence misting the enclosure too?

Diet - In August, he grazed in the garden at will and although I tried to supplement this with cut up grass/weeds and sprinkling with calcium powder, he wasn't interested. We have a good size garden and grow our own veg and he just bulldozed through to whatever he fancied. Now it's winter, it's wet and cold outside, I'm feeding him in his hut every other day, a mix of grass, romaine lettuce, kale and spring greens. I try to do more grass than anything. I've bought tortoise feed ('grasslands' - recommended on here) he won't touch it, I've bought dengi hifi light (molasses rich hay for horses with laminitis, recommended by my local tortoise santuary as that's what they feed their sulcatas in winter) but he won't touch it either. He does eat the grass/veg mix. Is this OK until Spring when he can graze himself? I feed him an amount the size of his shell, is that too much?

Substrate - I have had him on hay then soil based substrate when I first got him. I've now got him on orchid bark, as recommended on this site. Is that ok?

We got Rodney because we think they are just wonderful creatures. He has brought us so much joy in the short time we've had him, when he walks around the garden he looks both majestic and prehistoric! We want him to be with us for the rest of our lives, future house purchases will bear him and his needs in mind, our other animals like him (apart from the dog, who is scared and leaves him alone), the kids adore him. I check on him several times a day and night (even at 3am to check his hut temperatures haven't dropped). I've made lots of mistakes but I'm trying to get it right now.

I very much appreciate any advice on the above questions and apologise for such a long post.

Best regards, Emma from Plymouth xx

View attachment 312446
I
Hello Emma from another Devon resident (near Holsworthy) - what lovely pictures - Rodney looks a very handsome chap.
We have a 20year old hermanns tortoise, who we have had since he was a baby - I joined the forum several years ago, but never had the courage to write in until a couple of months ago - though I learned a great deal from reading other members posts !
Our boy is called Zola, and my first post was about his unusual lifestyle - we take him out every day - he has been to Plymouth several times, in fact. I wrote a long description headed -Please welcome Zola- in the introductions section,should you wish to read it.

We used to know a sulcata called Zeus at the tortoise sanctuary in St Austell, and he was wonderful - unfortunately the place closed several years ago and we havent seen any sulcatas since then.
I hope you will all have a long and happy life with Rodney
Best wishes
Angie
 

zolasmum

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5 Year Member
Joined
May 19, 2015
Messages
2,047
Sorry Emma - I somehow messed up my post to you, and it has come on the end of your previous post - I hope you can find it!
Angie
 

JoesMum

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10 Year Member!
Joined
Oct 26, 2011
Messages
21,586
Location (City and/or State)
Kent, South East England
There are a few ways to heat the inside hut up. If you can get a Kane heat mat for the floor & a Radiant Heat Panel for the inside/roof of the inner house - both connected to a thermostat. You have a large Sully, you don’t really want a hot CHE plopped in there near the carapace.

@JoesMum might be able to better help determine what you have easy access to. Good luck.
I’ll help if I can :)
 

jakey

New Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2017
Messages
2
Location (City and/or State)
Uk
Hello,

We have a Sulcata living in south west UK too. This is our second winter with her now.

Night time temps are tricky and they could do with being a bit higher. Lots of insulation and the oil radiator does help. Also is there anyway to get the direct warmth closer to where your tortoise generally settles down?

Tortoise is far less likely to venture out in winter, ours spends hours outside in summer but lucky to go out for an hour in winter every other day. We do find that if we put her outside she will stay out to graze on grass.

We bath ours once a week, urates which they expel vary a lot, sometimes very gritty and sometimes not. They have always been grittier than a Herman’s though. So I wouldn’t say you definitely have a dehydrated tortoise. Also, you will rarely see them drink anything.
We towel her off best we can, she doesn’t like it but doesn’t stress her enough to urinate or poo on me (she will do this if stressed, however, don’t mistake this when just having a bath as that’s normal)

Shell looks pretty good to me personally, many captive Sulcata’s seem to have some.

His sub bathing with legs out the side is normal too. I like to think it means they are happy as Larry. It’s called ‘splooting’.
 

Yossarian

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5 Year Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2015
Messages
813
Location (City and/or State)
Wales
Hello,

Night time temps are tricky and they could do with being a bit higher. Lots of insulation and the oil radiator does help. Also is there anyway to get the direct warmth closer to where your tortoise generally settles down?

Far Infrared heating panels that can be mounted on walls and ceiling. They heat occupants and surfaces not air, think like sunlight through a window. It is very efficient, hence the reason your car gets so hot you can also get bigger panels that will cover the whole area of your nightbox. Used in conjunction with a matt for large torts, and sometimes a heat lamp as well, you should be able to keep your tort nice and warm on cold nights.
 

Emmawilly

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Joined
Nov 1, 2020
Messages
161
Location (City and/or State)
Plymouth
Sorry Emma - I somehow messed up my post to you, and it has come on the end of your previous post - I hope you can find it!
Angie
Angie, thank you! I found your post! How wonderful to hear from you. I love the sound of Zola. I will go and hunt for the other post all about Zola and come back to you. Holsworthy is not far from me at all. Thank you for responding x
 

Emmawilly

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2020
Messages
161
Location (City and/or State)
Plymouth
There are a few ways to heat the inside hut up. If you can get a Kane heat mat for the floor & a Radiant Heat Panel for the inside/roof of the inner house - both connected to a thermostat. You have a large Sully, you don’t really want a hot CHE plopped in there near the carapace.

@JoesMum might be able to better help determine what you have easy access to. Good luck.
Thank you very much Maro2Bear. I took a quick look at the radiant heating panels, will he burn his nose or shell if he gets too close or are they too smart for that? Is there a particular wattage or size I should go for?

I found this for a heat mat, is this the sort of thing you meant? Does it go under the substrate?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B002D1DHPO/?tag=

Thank you very much!
 

Emmawilly

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2020
Messages
161
Location (City and/or State)
Plymouth
Hello,

We have a Sulcata living in south west UK too. This is our second winter with her now.

Night time temps are tricky and they could do with being a bit higher. Lots of insulation and the oil radiator does help. Also is there anyway to get the direct warmth closer to where your tortoise generally settles down?

Tortoise is far less likely to venture out in winter, ours spends hours outside in summer but lucky to go out for an hour in winter every other day. We do find that if we put her outside she will stay out to graze on grass.

We bath ours once a week, urates which they expel vary a lot, sometimes very gritty and sometimes not. They have always been grittier than a Herman’s though. So I wouldn’t say you definitely have a dehydrated tortoise. Also, you will rarely see them drink anything.
We towel her off best we can, she doesn’t like it but doesn’t stress her enough to urinate or poo on me (she will do this if stressed, however, don’t mistake this when just having a bath as that’s normal)

Shell looks pretty good to me personally, many captive Sulcata’s seem to have some.

His sub bathing with legs out the side is normal too. I like to think it means they are happy as Larry. It’s called ‘splooting’.

Thank you Jakey for your reply, it is so reassuring to hear someone has the same breed close by. How old is your Sulcata and what is her name?

Thanks for your reassurance on the sun bathing position, it looks strange!

In terms of heating, another member Maro2Bear recommended heat mat and radiator wall panel. Once I get the right spec (with a little direction from those on here!) I'll order this week.

What do you feed yours on in winter? How regularly do you feed her and how much? Rodney is fussy. We don't know how much he weighs because our scales broke when my husband stood on them with Rodney!

Thank you for your opinion about the shell. We'll do with we can so that it doesn't get any worse.

Nice to hear from you ??
 

Emmawilly

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2020
Messages
161
Location (City and/or State)
Plymouth
Far Infrared heating panels that can be mounted on walls and ceiling. They heat occupants and surfaces not air, think like sunlight through a window. It is very efficient, hence the reason your car gets so hot you can also get bigger panels that will cover the whole area of your nightbox. Used in conjunction with a matt for large torts, and sometimes a heat lamp as well, you should be able to keep your tort nice and warm on cold nights.
Thank you Yossarian.
I found this one...
Will Rodney burn his nose on it?
When I bought him he came with a small 4.5ft by 3ft hut, which he lived in outside (with his previous owner). I've now put this hut inside a shed which we've insulated on the inside and added 2 x tube heaters (crap) and a oil filled radiator (good). I'm thinking the size of his hut is small on this inside for him but also its restricting heating options. I'm wondering if it's a better idea to get rid of the hut and just put him in the shed, with one of these infrared panels, plus heat mat and his day lamp. He would have more space and I would have more options for heat.
I could create a hide and he'd still have access to outside. Or is he more snug in the box for winter?
I've kept pets all my life and am great with furries, but I've never doubted myself so much with owning a tortoise, it feels like such a responsibility to get it right and hopefully give him a long and happy life.
 

vladimir

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5 Year Member
Joined
May 18, 2017
Messages
1,487
Location (City and/or State)
Pennsylvania
I'm not sure where you would get them in the UK, but this is the Kane mat that people recommend:


It is often combined with a radiant heat panel found here: https://www.reptilebasics.com/rbi-radiant-heat-panels

It looks like the RHPs are out of stock at the moment though.

The oil filled radiator should be effective at providing heat for you, so you may not need the RHP.
 

Yossarian

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2015
Messages
813
Location (City and/or State)
Wales
I'm not sure where you would get them in the UK, but this is the Kane mat that people recommend:


It is often combined with a radiant heat panel found here: https://www.reptilebasics.com/rbi-radiant-heat-panels

It looks like the RHPs are out of stock at the moment though.

The oil filled radiator should be effective at providing heat for you, so you may not need the RHP.

These are the closest to the Kane mats that I can find, sold as livestock mats, mostly for rearing pigs by the looks of it but they do the same thing as the Kane mats.


Everywhere I find Standfield and Kane mats they are in dollars or are very very expensive indicating shipping from the US
 

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