Experiment #3, 2011

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Tom

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So far for 2011 we have this one:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-VitaShell--27085#axzz1OkqZ1aQx

And this one:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Humid-Hatchling-Chamber#axzz1OkqZ1aQx

Both of these are going very well and I will be posting updates on them as we go along.

So here is #3:
9vgy1h.jpg

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It is actually a big bird brooder. It has a very precisely controlled thermostat and two ways to control humidity. I, of course will be keeping humidity high.:) It is set on a 12 hour timer for 92 degrees while its on. So at 7am it kicks on and quickly warms up to 92 and at 7pm it kicks off and gradually cools to the room temp of 80. This one is different than the "humid chamber experiment" in that they don't have a choice about warmth. In the humid chamber they can get on or off their heat mat as they see fit. In this one they just get warm and thats that. I might fiddle with the temp, if I see a need. This one was inspired by Neal, whose vet told him to keep a sick star tortoise in an incubator during treatment, and Norman who keeps some pretty amazing species, and keeps them gorgeous too, but doesn't use heat lamps or hot spots. At least those are the main two gentlemen that put this idea in my head.

3 of my recent 12 Deloris' hatchlings are in here. I'm planning on running this one for around 6 months, unless there is the slightest hint of a problem or they just outgrow it too fast. Its about 30" long and 18" wide. These babies will still get daily soaks and an hour or two of sunshine in an outdoor pen around 5 days a week. They will also get the same diet and supplement routine as all the other ones.

There will be a 4th and possibly fifth experiment with these hatchlings this year, but more on those later...
 

dmmj

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I think we might be witnessing the birth of a mad scientist LOL
 

Tom

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dmmj said:
I think we might be witnessing the birth of a mad scientist LOL

... or hopefully the end of pyramiding...:p
 

Laura

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when the babies hit a certain age or size, do you plan to sell them?>
if this works... i hope the Big breeders/ sellers of these guys catch on and then we will have less hatchling heartbreaks as well..
however.. will that mean.. more in rescues as well?
regardless.. love your mad scientist passion!!!!!
 

DeanS

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I have absolutely no doubt that all three (along with your unnamed soon-to-come-to-fruition) experiments will ALL be successful...:D
 

TortieLuver

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That's great work Tom! We all can't wait to here your results from your data and analysis. We all might be going out in 6 months and buying brooders LOL!! You are certainly doing a good deed to helping hatchling owners care for their captive-bred tortoise
 

Neal

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Well, you beat me to the punch. I remember talking to you about doing this exact thing back in December. I have a crude form of this I've been keeping some of mine in, so far it works well.
 

Kristina

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Same kind of idea I had as far as carefully controlled temp and humidity, lol, although mine is a bit cruder ;)
 

ascott

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Hi Tom,

I have been reading some of your threads about your theory here and I am inclined to agree with your direction.....what species are you following for your theory/test? :D
 

Tortoise-Luke

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Tom i've talked to you on pm before so you know i'm a fan, but i dont really agree on this one because you're going against "nature's" way. I think they should have a choice in temperatures, maybe have some kind of doggy door to a cooler spot somewhere else. Not saying you should'nt try it I just dont prefer it, they are cold blooded for a reason and should be able to cool down even during the day.
Didn't want to bash on your experiment just think it's not the best direction, hope you don't take it the wrong way, just a thought.
 

Yvonne G

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Hi Luke:

Its perfectly ok to disagree with something you read on the forum. Tom understands, I'm sure. Not everyone thinks alike and we're certainly not sheep. So its quite ok to go in a different direction. The problem enters when your disagreement takes a derogatory turn. If everyone just keeps it friendly and no name calling, etc. please feel free to agree or disagree...but stay friendly!! :D
 

Kristina

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See, I don't think it goes against nature as much as most people believe.

Tom, here is a suggestion. I believe you have a temp gun, right? Go outside when the sun is full out and take a temp reading of the ground. In the same vicinity, find the base of a clump of weeds. etc, scratch a 1" deep hole and take a temp reading of it.

I bet they aren't far off...
 

Tortoise-Luke

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emysemys said:
Hi Luke:

Its perfectly ok to disagree with something you read on the forum. Tom understands, I'm sure. Not everyone thinks alike and we're certainly not sheep. So its quite ok to go in a different direction. The problem enters when your disagreement takes a derogatory turn. If everyone just keeps it friendly and no name calling, etc. please feel free to agree or disagree...but stay friendly!! :D

thank you, i hope it didnt hurt anyones feelings or think im looking down on his experiment, on the contrary it really makes me happy to see someone invest time and money (on his own dime) just to seek a brighter future for tortoises in general.
Matter of fact I'm performing a "copy" of his experiment #2 with some chaco hatchlings to see how it turns out with a different species on the other side of the hemisphere, I promise to start the thread soon :tort:
 

dmarcus

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I think its cool that Tom is doing all he can to end pyramiding and he has chosen to let us all in on the process.

I also agree with Yvonne G. We can agree and disagree with each other about things, just don't make it personal and try to use a little tact because not everyone has think skin and we do have kids on this forum..
 

ticothetort2

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Very interesting Tom, really look forward to seeing results in the future. Thanks for sharing the process w/ us.
 

Tom

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Neal said:
Well, you beat me to the punch. I remember talking to you about doing this exact thing back in December. I have a crude form of this I've been keeping some of mine in, so far it works well.

Well jeez louise Neal. You do all sorts of neat stuff and I really think you figure out some good things. How come you don't wanna post it more? I wish you would. I know I have benefited from things you have shared in the past, and I'm certain I would learn a lot more if you posted it.

What results have you observed so far? If I'm just spinning my wheels in the wrong direction on an experiment that has already been done, I may as well just quit early. Love to hear your thoughts on it.

Kristina said:
Same kind of idea I had as far as carefully controlled temp and humidity, lol, although mine is a bit cruder ;)

It IS similar to your set up, but I'm trying to avoid any of the desiccating overhead heat and accompanying low humidity areas within an enclosure.

BTW, I'm moving all the Gpp to a 4x8' enclosure and my CHE is directly over one of the water bowls. :D


ascott said:
Hi Tom,

I have been reading some of your threads about your theory here and I am inclined to agree with your direction.....what species are you following for your theory/test? :D

Last year I did sulcatas, both types of leopards and CDTs. All went extremely well. All of these are so-called "desert" species and all seem to suffer greatly from being kept too dry as babies. NONE of these "desert" species did anything but thrive under humid and well hydrated conditions.

This years experiments are all sulcatas that I hatched myself. I have too many and too much going on to branch out into a bunch of other species right now, but I would love it if some other people would do it with their hatchlings and start a thread showing their results. I don't want anyone to think that I, or anyone else, would be the least bit offended by someone else doing something similar. Just the opposite. I'm doing all this to advance tortoise keeping knowledge. If more people do it with me, knowledge will advance even further.



Tortoise-Luke said:
Tom i've talked to you on pm before so you know i'm a fan, but i dont really agree on this one because you're going against "nature's" way. I think they should have a choice in temperatures, maybe have some kind of doggy door to a cooler spot somewhere else. Not saying you should'nt try it I just dont prefer it, they are cold blooded for a reason and should be able to cool down even during the day.
Didn't want to bash on your experiment just think it's not the best direction, hope you don't take it the wrong way, just a thought.

Luke, I'm GLAD you said something. Thank you. Your successful attempt at sugar coating, just makes it that much nicer.:D You stand with the majority of people keeping reptiles and tortoises all over the world. I used to stand with you over there in the not too distant past. In the last few years, however, I have just seen a tremendous amount of overwhelming evidence that contradicts the "conventional wisdom". Seeing other people successfully doing things the way I am attempting to do them here, has made me reconsider the "conventional" and open my mind a bit. Have you ever seen pics of Norman's tortoises? Do a search for Gummybearpoop and look at his perfect specimens and his style of keeping them. I'm not inventing any of this. I'm only assimilating and copying what I've seen done successfully elsewhere and trying to show it to everybody. If I had any doubts about what the outcome will be, I would not jeopardize the well being of these precious little babies.

I'm not saying you are wrong. I don't know yet if you are or aren't. But I will invite you to keep an eye on this thread and see how it goes. I only politely ask you to keep an open mind... If I am wrong I will be publicly humiliated, and that is NOT something that I would enjoy.



Kristina said:
See, I don't think it goes against nature as much as most people believe.

Tom, here is a suggestion. I believe you have a temp gun, right? Go outside when the sun is full out and take a temp reading of the ground. In the same vicinity, find the base of a clump of weeds. etc, scratch a 1" deep hole and take a temp reading of it.

I bet they aren't far off...

I'll do this tomorrow afternoon. And get pics of it too.

Terry Allan Hall said:
dmmj said:
I think we might be witnessing the birth of a mad scientist LOL

Yup... :cool:

Hmmm... What will NEXT years experiments be????? MMMMOOOOOHHOOOOHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
 
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