Exotic Animals As Pets

[Baoh]

RE: Animals As Pets

I have yet to see the caging environment that satisfies many of the stimuli found in the three groups I mentioned. Humans, like other highly socialized creatures, can (and have been) be kept in an enclosure, can be denied interaction within and among societal groups and subgroups, and can be denied the variety of materials and stimuli humans have been known to make use of in life. In case one has not examined these situations, the animal (human) is very much alive and perhaps even healthy by general physiological metrics. However, the animal (human) is often not "whole".

Adequate dietary and shelter needs are fundamental to the probability of physical health. There is much more to health than food and warmth, though.

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To be clear, too, the "wild" and nature are very cruel (technically, indifferent) places and contexts. I do not discount that.

 

[exoticsdr]

RE: Animals As Pets

Here in the UK, I have a pet shop called l n d exotics and I walked in the otherday, and walked straight back out as for sale they had:
Skunks
Raccoons
Mini Foxs (cant remember proper name)
Rare Squirrels
Meerkats
Hedghogs
Personally I think this is cruel, especially the family of meerkats as they were only seeling in pairs!

What animals are sold in your petshops around the world? and what do you think??

Thanks xx

Driving from Phoenix, Arizona to Missoula, Montana I once saw a jackalope for sale.......

priceless.....how much were they asking?

 

[Edna]

RE: Animals As Pets

Driving from Phoenix, Arizona to Missoula, Montana I once saw a jackalope for sale.......

Jackalopes are the ultimate exotic animal lol.

I've always thought we should promote packrats as pets for the overseas markets. Why should we have those cute little guys all to ourselves?

 

[B K]

RE: Animals As Pets

I think if you can care for it there is no problem owning it. If we cannot figure out how to keep them in captivity many animals will become extinct from loss of habitat and poaching plus the zoos help fund and do research to help the wild animals. Look at some of the people we let have kids lets regulate that!!!!

 

[froghaven5]

RE: Animals As Pets

I've seen the hedgehogs, flying squirrels, and sugar gliders for sale here in NJ. The most interesting animal for sale that I've seen is wallabys. What I find amazing about this is that it is allowed in NJ. In NJ it is illegal to buy or sell turtles or tortoise, cornsnakes are only allowed if they have red eyes..... Interesting that it is ok to "own" some animals, but not others.

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There is a person on another forum I'm on that has ranches in South Dakota & Wisconsin. He has some of the most interesting animals from all over. He has the space and the knowledge about all of these animals and shares his knowledge and pictures of his ranches often.

 

[natsamjosh]

RE: Animals As Pets

I'm always surprised when I see people on a pet related forum railing against other people and their choice of pets.

Same here, Tom. This is a personal issue for me. Although I don't own any large constrictor snakes, I've spent a lot of time and effort fighting against the ridiculous laws/bans/regulations on large pythons and anacondas. I've just about given up fighting, though, since I've seen so many reptile owners, even owners of boa constrictors (which are "large constrictor snakes" that are being targeted by many lawmakers!), railing against large python owners, using the same illogical reasoning that animal rights groups like HSUS and PETA use. This is why I'm not optimistic about the future of "exotic" pet ownership. It's hard enough to fight all the intrusive, irrational and often counter-productive government regulations, but if pet owners can't even stand united...

I think one other aspect that folks are missing is that there are positives to keeping animals in zoos and private collections, even if some individual animals do unfortunately suffer. What better way to inform and educate the public, which can result in the greater good for particular species and animals in general? Reading books and/or googling on a species might be helpful, but it's not nearly as effective as seeing/touching animals in person.

Anyway, that's my rant.

 

[jbean7916]

RE: Animals As Pets

I'm always surprised when I see people on a pet related forum railing against other people and their choice of pets.

Same here, Tom. This is a personal issue for me. Although I don't own any large constrictor snakes, I've spent a lot of time and effort fighting against the ridiculous laws/bans/regulations on large pythons and anacondas. I've just about given up fighting, though, since I've seen so many reptile owners, even owners of boa constrictors (which are "large constrictor snakes" that are being targeted by many lawmakers!), railing against large python owners, using the same illogical reasoning that animal rights groups like HSUS and PETA use. This is why I'm not optimistic about the future of "exotic" pet ownership. It's hard enough to fight all the intrusive, irrational and often counter-productive government regulations, but if pet owners can't even stand united...

I think one other aspect that folks are missing is that there are positives to keeping animals in zoos and private collections, even if some individual animals do unfortunately suffer. What better way to inform and educate the public, which can result in the greater good for particular species and animals in general? Reading books and/or googling on a species might be helpful, but it's not nearly as effective as seeing/touching animals in person.

Anyway, that's my rant.

As a python and other reptile owner I'd like to thank you for your support on that!!! I have a feeling that snakes are just the beginning and if they can manage to ban them, everyone else who owns a pet will be at risk.

I spend a lot of time and money to make sure ALL of my animals have the correct husbandry and don't purchase anything unless I have done the proper research to make sure I can handle not only the space but the expense as well.

Responsible keepers are the best thing that can happen to the pet trade but unfortunately, the irresponsible keepers are the only ones the public hears about.

 

[Angi]

If I could properly keep an exotic animal and they were legal I would want one. I don't know what I would want, but I know I could not give any of the critters on that list a good home. I don't feel that I would give a sulcata a good home, so I don't have one. I could give a sulcata a good home, but I don't want to put the time and money into making a safe and comfortable place for one. I have the sense to know that. Unfortunatly a lot off people do not or they don't care. Do I think all exotic should be against the law, NO. But I don't think it should be as easy as walking into a store and buying them. I don't have the answer as to how they should be obtained and it does not matter if I did, my oppinion does not matter to the goverment. I do think there should be more regulations on some animals. Pit bulls scare me. I think a lot of people can safly keep them, but in the hands of a tweeker, criminal of unresponsable person they can be dangerous. I think anyone that takes the time and cares enough about animal is probably responsable enough to own a pit. Unfortunatly they seem to be the white trash dog of chioce here. I have also seen some horrible torts and turtles that should not have been in the care of the person that owned them and fail to care for them. I don't have the answer to solve these problems, but I hate that people can mistreat animals. Don't get me started on kids I will quit rambling now

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That was suposed to say cares enough about animal to spend time on the forum. And I have seen some torts in horrible shape. I don't think there are horrible tort

 

[Az tortoise compound]

RE: Animals As Pets

Driving from Phoenix, Arizona to Missoula, Montana I once saw a jackalope for sale.......

priceless.....how much were they asking?

Doc, it was a half off sale...they only had the front end mounted

HSUS is a whole different topic and since we should all be nice I will refrain from commenting further.....

 

[Len B]

I have kept 4 of the animals on the list and the only one I felt that I couldn't care for properly was the hedghog, my work schedule changed and I was working a lot of overtime,so I gave it to a qualified hedghog keeper.I also adopted a very old Capuchin monkey from a family that was moving to NC, and could not take her with them. It was like having a 2 year old in the house again.She died of old age but she was as happy as we could make her until her last day. Len

 

[exoticsdr]

I have kept 4 of the animals on the list and the only one I felt that I couldn't care for properly was the hedghog, my work schedule changed and I was working a lot of overtime,so I gave it to a qualified hedghog keeper.I also adopted a very old Capuchin monkey from a family that was moving to NC, and could not take her with them. It was like having a 2 year old in the house again.She died of old age but she was as happy as we could make her until her last day. Len

You had a capuchin and the hedgework was the one that was too much? hahahaha, WOW! Would never ever thought I would hear someone say that. Monkeys are the bane of my existence when wearing my exotic animal veterinary hat....if I only had a nickle for every time that I heard someone say that they wanted one or for those that actually saved the $3 to 8 thousand dollars needed to buy one and then had absolutely no idea of how to handle it when it got past that cute, loveable, ever-mommy-dependent baby stage. I discourage primate ownership at every chance, but do I think it should be over-regulated or made illegal....absolutely not!

 

[Len B]

I have kept 4 of the animals on the list and the only one I felt that I couldn't care for properly was the hedghog, my work schedule changed and I was working a lot of overtime,so I gave it to a qualified hedghog keeper.I also adopted a very old Capuchin monkey from a family that was moving to NC, and could not take her with them. It was like having a 2 year old in the house again.She died of old age but she was as happy as we could make her until her last day. Len

You had a capuchin and the hedgework was the one that was too much? hahahaha, WOW! Would never ever thought I would hear someone say that. Monkeys are the bane of my existence when wearing my exotic animal veterinary hat....if I only had a nickle for every time that I heard someone say that they wanted one or for those that actually saved the $3 to 8 thousand dollars needed to buy one and then had absolutely no idea of how to handle it when it got past that cute, loveable, ever-mommy-dependent baby stage. I discourage primate ownership at every chance, but do I think it should be over-regulated or made illegal....absolutely not!

I wasn't sure what I was getting myself and family into when I agreed to take her in,but she was in a basement cage with very little human contact when I first met her . She was the sweetest animal, and just fell in love with my wife.It all worked out for the best for her and for us,It was a great experience. I would do it again if one needed a home. They are so intelligent and loving, Well at least she was. Her name was Sarah.Like I said it was like having a child in the house again.

 

[natsamjosh]

If I could properly keep an exotic animal and they were legal I would want one. I don't know what I would want, but I know I could not give any of the critters on that list a good home. I don't feel that I would give a sulcata a good home, so I don't have one. I could give a sulcata a good home, but I don't want to put the time and money into making a safe and comfortable place for one. I have the sense to know that. Unfortunatly a lot off people do not or they don't care. Do I think all exotic should be against the law, NO. But I don't think it should be as easy as walking into a store and buying them. I don't have the answer as to how they should be obtained and it does not matter if I did, my oppinion does not matter to the goverment. I do think there should be more regulations on some animals. Pit bulls scare me. I think a lot of people can safly keep them, but in the hands of a tweeker, criminal of unresponsable person they can be dangerous. I think anyone that takes the time and cares enough about animal is probably responsable enough to own a pit. Unfortunatly they seem to be the white trash dog of chioce here. I have also seen some horrible torts and turtles that should not have been in the care of the person that owned them and fail to care for them. I don't have the answer to solve these problems, but I hate that people can mistreat animals. Don't get me started on kids I will quit rambling now

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That was suposed to say cares enough about animal to spend time on the forum. And I have seen some torts in horrible shape. I don't think there are horrible tort

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Angi,

No one here is condoning irresponsible ownership or child abuse, we all agree on that.

While your intentions are good, imo your thought process is very short sighted. First, your reasoning can be applied to any pet. The person down the street from you could be saying that the tortoises you own are hard to take care of and should be banned/regulated. Second, there are several thousand years of human history that show that bans/regulations don't work, or more specifically, don't achieve their supposedly intended results. The bottom line is that, especially in a free society, responsible behavior cannot be legislated, it can only be punished. In other words, bans/regulations only prevent (or make it much more expensive/difficult for) responsible, law-abiding people from owning the banned/regulated animals.. or it will make them criminals. The irresponsible people will still get the animals. Just look at Florida and big pythons. With all the hoopla, hysteria and regulations, there aren't any fewer stories of irresponsible owners doing something stupid. The best thing we can do is try our best to educate others and come down hard on irresponsible owners with animal cruelty or other criminal laws.

Again, I believe your intentions are good, but just because *you* can't take care of a certain type of animal, or just because *you* are scared of a certain type of animal, doesn't mean that animal should be regulated/banned. Not trying to be insulting.

Thanks,
Ed

 

[Balboa]

I've gone back and forth on the feeling that nobody who lives in a climate such as mine has any business keeping "tropical" tortoises.... maybe meds and undecided on that... and I'm back to that feeling and think about rehoming mine to a better climate. Do I want to see legislation banning ownership in my state? heck no. I simply wish people would educate themselves a little better before making the purchase.

Its a little ironic really. Squirrels, Racoons and Skunks are all illegal to own here, as they are native wildlife, and frankly, all probably make better pets than tortoises (for the average pet keeper). Unfortunately, since they are native to this climate.... they can't be kept here where they can thrive. Stupid. We can only deplete foreign animal populations.

 

[B K]

If I could properly keep an exotic animal and they were legal I would want one. I don't know what I would want, but I know I could not give any of the critters on that list a good home. I don't feel that I would give a sulcata a good home, so I don't have one. I could give a sulcata a good home, but I don't want to put the time and money into making a safe and comfortable place for one. I have the sense to know that. Unfortunatly a lot off people do not or they don't care. Do I think all exotic should be against the law, NO. But I don't think it should be as easy as walking into a store and buying them. I don't have the answer as to how they should be obtained and it does not matter if I did, my oppinion does not matter to the goverment. I do think there should be more regulations on some animals. Pit bulls scare me. I think a lot of people can safly keep them, but in the hands of a tweeker, criminal of unresponsable person they can be dangerous. I think anyone that takes the time and cares enough about animal is probably responsable enough to own a pit. Unfortunatly they seem to be the white trash dog of chioce here. I have also seen some horrible torts and turtles that should not have been in the care of the person that owned them and fail to care for them. I don't have the answer to solve these problems, but I hate that people can mistreat animals. Don't get me started on kids I will quit rambling now

---

That was suposed to say cares enough about animal to spend time on the forum. And I have seen some torts in horrible shape. I don't think there are horrible tort

---

Angi,

No one here is condoning irresponsible ownership or child abuse, we all agree on that.

While your intentions are good, imo your thought process is very short sighted. First, your reasoning can be applied to any pet. The person down the street from you could be saying that the tortoises you own are hard to take care of and should be banned/regulated. Second, there are several thousand years of human history that show that bans/regulations don't work, or more specifically, don't achieve their supposedly intended results. The bottom line is that, especially in a free society, responsible behavior cannot be legislated, it can only be punished. In other words, bans/regulations only prevent (or make it much more expensive/difficult for) responsible, law-abiding people from owning the banned/regulated animals.. or it will make them criminals. The irresponsible people will still get the animals. Just look at Florida and big pythons. With all the hoopla, hysteria and regulations, there aren't any fewer stories of irresponsible owners doing something stupid. The best thing we can do is try our best to educate others and come down hard on irresponsible owners with animal cruelty or other criminal laws.

Again, I believe your intentions are good, but just because *you* can't take care of a certain type of animal, or just because *you* are scared of a certain type of animal, doesn't mean that animal should be regulated/banned. Not trying to be insulting.

Thanks,
Ed

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Am I missing something I don’t think Angi is saying they should not be owned?

 

[wrmitchell22]

If I could properly keep an exotic animal and they were legal I would want one. I don't know what I would want, but I know I could not give any of the critters on that list a good home. I don't feel that I would give a sulcata a good home, so I don't have one. I could give a sulcata a good home, but I don't want to put the time and money into making a safe and comfortable place for one. I have the sense to know that. Unfortunatly a lot off people do not or they don't care. Do I think all exotic should be against the law, NO. But I don't think it should be as easy as walking into a store and buying them. I don't have the answer as to how they should be obtained and it does not matter if I did, my oppinion does not matter to the goverment. I do think there should be more regulations on some animals. Pit bulls scare me. I think a lot of people can safly keep them, but in the hands of a tweeker, criminal of unresponsable person they can be dangerous. I think anyone that takes the time and cares enough about animal is probably responsable enough to own a pit. Unfortunatly they seem to be the white trash dog of chioce here. I have also seen some horrible torts and turtles that should not have been in the care of the person that owned them and fail to care for them. I don't have the answer to solve these problems, but I hate that people can mistreat animals. Don't get me started on kids I will quit rambling now

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That was suposed to say cares enough about animal to spend time on the forum. And I have seen some torts in horrible shape. I don't think there are horrible tort

---

Angi,

No one here is condoning irresponsible ownership or child abuse, we all agree on that.

While your intentions are good, imo your thought process is very short sighted. First, your reasoning can be applied to any pet. The person down the street from you could be saying that the tortoises you own are hard to take care of and should be banned/regulated. Second, there are several thousand years of human history that show that bans/regulations don't work, or more specifically, don't achieve their supposedly intended results. The bottom line is that, especially in a free society, responsible behavior cannot be legislated, it can only be punished. In other words, bans/regulations only prevent (or make it much more expensive/difficult for) responsible, law-abiding people from owning the banned/regulated animals.. or it will make them criminals. The irresponsible people will still get the animals. Just look at Florida and big pythons. With all the hoopla, hysteria and regulations, there aren't any fewer stories of irresponsible owners doing something stupid. The best thing we can do is try our best to educate others and come down hard on irresponsible owners with animal cruelty or other criminal laws.

Again, I believe your intentions are good, but just because *you* can't take care of a certain type of animal, or just because *you* are scared of a certain type of animal, doesn't mean that animal should be regulated/banned. Not trying to be insulting.

Thanks,
Ed

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Wow Ed you have done what my Husband says is impossible, made me reconsider my point of view! I feel so strongly about animal rights and responsible ownership, and being in Law Enforcement I always think make a law. You made some really awesome points that I never considered. I am almost speechless! I said Almost, I think you may be right, laws are not necessarily the way to go in this regard. I still think it should be a little more difficult and not easy to buy exotics, but I now think educated breeders and sellers may be a more effective way of dealing with this. Thank you

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If I could properly keep an exotic animal and they were legal I would want one. I don't know what I would want, but I know I could not give any of the critters on that list a good home. I don't feel that I would give a sulcata a good home, so I don't have one. I could give a sulcata a good home, but I don't want to put the time and money into making a safe and comfortable place for one. I have the sense to know that. Unfortunatly a lot off people do not or they don't care. Do I think all exotic should be against the law, NO. But I don't think it should be as easy as walking into a store and buying them. I don't have the answer as to how they should be obtained and it does not matter if I did, my oppinion does not matter to the goverment. I do think there should be more regulations on some animals. Pit bulls scare me. I think a lot of people can safly keep them, but in the hands of a tweeker, criminal of unresponsable person they can be dangerous. I think anyone that takes the time and cares enough about animal is probably responsable enough to own a pit. Unfortunatly they seem to be the white trash dog of chioce here. I have also seen some horrible torts and turtles that should not have been in the care of the person that owned them and fail to care for them. I don't have the answer to solve these problems, but I hate that people can mistreat animals. Don't get me started on kids I will quit rambling now

---

That was suposed to say cares enough about animal to spend time on the forum. And I have seen some torts in horrible shape. I don't think there are horrible tort

---

Angi,

No one here is condoning irresponsible ownership or child abuse, we all agree on that.

While your intentions are good, imo your thought process is very short sighted. First, your reasoning can be applied to any pet. The person down the street from you could be saying that the tortoises you own are hard to take care of and should be banned/regulated. Second, there are several thousand years of human history that show that bans/regulations don't work, or more specifically, don't achieve their supposedly intended results. The bottom line is that, especially in a free society, responsible behavior cannot be legislated, it can only be punished. In other words, bans/regulations only prevent (or make it much more expensive/difficult for) responsible, law-abiding people from owning the banned/regulated animals.. or it will make them criminals. The irresponsible people will still get the animals. Just look at Florida and big pythons. With all the hoopla, hysteria and regulations, there aren't any fewer stories of irresponsible owners doing something stupid. The best thing we can do is try our best to educate others and come down hard on irresponsible owners with animal cruelty or other criminal laws.

Again, I believe your intentions are good, but just because *you* can't take care of a certain type of animal, or just because *you* are scared of a certain type of animal, doesn't mean that animal should be regulated/banned. Not trying to be insulting.

Thanks,
Ed

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Wow Ed you have done what my Husband says is impossible, made me reconsider my point of view! I feel so strongly about animal rights and responsible ownership, and being in Law Enforcement I always think make a law. You made some really awesome points that I never considered. I am almost speechless! I said Almost, I think you may be right, laws are not necessarily the way to go in this regard. I still think it should be a little more difficult and not easy to buy exotics, but I now think educated breeders and sellers may be a more effective way of dealing with this. Thank you

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BTW, I don't think ANgi said they shouldn't be owned either, just for the record, but I totally understand and am starting to see Ed's point. I still don't think you can duplicate all animals habitats, and still think some animals should only be in the wild, but as far as some exotics being sold or kept as pets, I see a different point of view now.

 

[exoticsdr]

Responsible is the key word here and that goes for any animal put into our care, we must be RESPONSIBLE. I don't believe that the government has any right to tell us what we should be able to own, but there should be consequences if you are not living up to your responsibilites. As for the whole great apes, the killer whales, elephants, etc.....well, to be honest, not many people can AFFORD these animals in the first place so they are in the minority. I look at those cases, like I look at elected officials.......if you don't like them, don't vote for them.....If you don't like circuses, Seaworld, or roadside attractions that own great apes, don't give them your money and they will eventually be forced to go away.

 

[Angi]

Yes Ed you are right these things can't really be regulated. I just hated that people can be so awful to their pets, neglect them, put them in danger and let them be a danger. My thought is that some pets are even harder to take care of than dogs and cats. It just makes me sick to see the grossly deformed turtles or the tons of RES on craigs list. As I said I don't have an answer and was just rambling or babbling.

Oh and the Florida python thing really freaks me out. There is no way I would live in Florida, I would be way too scared. Then again I didn't think I could live in a place where rattlers came up to my front door Whoa I just got way O/T SORRY

 

[River14]

Wah I love this debate its so civil for starters but also so important.

I believe firmly that the government or rther the Animal and fisheries department should be allowed to tell us what we are able to care for and what not in conjunction with NGO orgs that monotore the various species around the world.

No one should be bying radiated Madagascan tortoise hatchlings or juveniles plucked from the wild for exmple. No one. If what it takes is a sensible government policy to stop that trade Im all for it. But when was government so wise? Maybe an open letter to Obama might work but I reckon what with default next Tuesday he has enough on his plate as do most governments.

Im not entirely proposing a military wing on the conservation front here (though it might be time) but all of us, as I think it was Angis point are the converted here minus one or two. My apologies if it wasnt Angie. But as such anyway its our resposibility to spread the message what ever it may be far and wide certainly beyond this forum.

I dont think wild animls make good pets at all but there are a few. African hedhogs ae good, some tortoises and sugar gliders. I dont know about the others.

Sugar gliders are very easy pets in the right climate (again I think Angie or Balboa) Im a lazy tart isn't, I cant even look up the references, I remember them at least isn't it so?

Im personally not sure we humans can look after anything as well as nature will. We try. But honestly we should ll be working towards conservation of habitat thats if the world will have us.

 

[tyler0912]

You don't think some people think the same way about Tortoises? Or Reptiles in general?

As long as an individual can keep the animal properly, what's the harm? You get to keep your Tortoises right? So people that want to keep Mammals can't? What's the difference between the two, and why do you think different?

As Tortoise keepers, does that make you immune to the "Pet Trade" in general? As that seems to me to be the general consensus on this thread.........

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I could not of said it better myself,
Tortoises are classed as exotics and around where i live i dont know anyone who owns one,
If one can pay for food,veterinary care,homing,love,affection,and the animal can be domesticated why not? people say its cruel theyre suppose to be in the wild but if they are being sold in petshops it meens they would be unable to fend for thereselves in the wild which meens people who are buying these' are doing them a favour,
I agree they should not be taken out of there natural habitat but once it is done it is done and they cant be put back so purchasing them to get them out of the petshop is the best thing, to buy one then let it go in the wild is just killing it ! **POINT MADE**