Esmeralda needs surgery

[Yourlocalpoet]

So glad she is on the mend.
I know my vet has carried out that operation before and for very similar symptoms to what you mentioned, the recovery was a long process but they got there in the end.
Please keep us updated, I would love to hear about her recovery.

Thank you. She recovered really well from the anaesthesia, and was walking around last night inspecting the hospital quarters I’ve set up for her. I’m sure she hates me, and the antibiotic injections aren’t going to help that cause, so
today I’m leaving her alone, and she’s mostly been sleeping at a toasty 30C. Hopefully she’ll want to eat and drink soon.

Fingers crossed.

 

[TammyJ]

What did the vet say causes this to happen? "Follicular stasis."

 

[Lyn W]

Aw poor Esmeralda! I don't know anything about female torts reproductive systems but that seems a heck of a lot for a 14 inch tort to be carrying around inside her.
I hope she makes a full and speedy recovery from the operation and be back to her usual self sooner rather than later so that you can relax a bit too.
Take care

 

[Sleppo]

She had the surgery yesterday, and is recovering well so far.

View attachment 277574

The vet was spot on - she had follicular stasis as suspected due to the consistent gravid behaviour with no egg laying and the blood tests, notably the poor white blood cell count.

This is what was removed from her.

View attachment 277573

Look at size and the colour of some of those follicles. Pretty nasty stuff. I actually cannot believe she seemed so bright and coped so well with the amount of those on her ovaries. This has clearly been an issue since at least last summer with no outward symptoms until this year and it may have damaged her liver. Time will tell.

@TammyJ, I am candid and honest; I wasn’t trying to be offhand, so I’ll preface this last statement by saying explicitly that I am NOT trying to antagonise anyone with what I’m about to say, but I think it’s important to acknowledge that had I taken the advice from this forum and assumed this was just exploratory or normal behaviour and left her alone as advised, this would not have ended well for my tortoise.

No, this isn’t always the case; I have witnessed fantastic advice over the years here which have probably saved the lives of many animals, and I’ve learned a lot about tortoises. Yes, the people on this forum are fantastic, greatly experienced, helpful and wonderfully knowledgable, but I feel there is a lesson to be learned here; we are still only hobbyists on an Internet forum, and no matter how knowledgeable we are, we must always challenge and enquire and make judicious use of all information given to us, and this includes information from qualified reptile veterinarians.

Thank you again to anyone who gave advice or well wishes regarding this - I sincerely appreciate it. Essie isn’t out of the woods yet as she has to recover but hopefully this thread might help someone else who’s tortoise ever has this disease.

Some articles for reference on Follicular Stasis for anyone interested.

http://www.britishcheloniagroup.org.uk/vetscorner/stasis

https://www.vettimes.co.uk/article/reproductive-diseases-in-reptiles/?format=pdf

https://www.vetstream.com/treat/exotis/reptile/diseases/pre-post-ovulatory-stasis

Wow! I am glad you stuck to your guns and had the procedure. Thank you for sharing all of this information and I wish Essie a speedy recovery.

 

[wellington]

Thanks @wellington. I don’t think I did hold anything back? I gave all the information I was given about the blood work: low white blood cells, increased calcium and yolk formation - (see post #23)

There was nothing on the X Ray, I saw it but don’t have a copy, but the follicles were visible via ultrasound.

I didn’t know it was going on last year, the vet has just surmised this from the amount of follicles removed; she wasn’t digging or doing anything out of the ordinary last year.

I dont remember reading about an ultrasound but my point isnt that all info wasnt posted, it's that it wasnt post all in the original post. Correct me if I'm wrong. The info being in a combo of several posts will leave some not getting all the info. Specially when an alert is sent to someone that has already posted on your thread, they likely wont read any new posts, just the one they were alerted too.
Anyway the decision has to be yours and only yours. You have to live with whichever decision you choose. I'm just so happy that everything zo far is good and hoping it continues with no complications. Btw, antibiotics can make them not want to eat. It may take her awhile to do that. More important is to keep her hydrated. Offer her favorite foods to try and entice her to eat.
Good luck and keep us updated.

 

[TammyJ]

What did the vet say causes this to happen? "Follicular stasis."

Tammy really needs to know this, can anyone answer the question? What causes "follicular stasis"?
I would just Google it, but that does not help others also interested to learn right here in this thread.

 

[Blackdog1714]

http://veterinarymedicine.dvm360.co...ocia-oviparous-lizards?id=&pageID=1&sk=&date=
THis article is informative and terrifying! What the Vet took out of the lizard looks exactly like what you had in that bucket!

 

[Yourlocalpoet]

What did the vet say causes this to happen? "Follicular stasis."

The vet told me there is no definitive cause, and the articles I have read seem to support this. He suggested any of these things:

Absence of males (it’s more common in isolated females)
Prolonged poor husbandry
Secondary to a viral disease
Genetics
Bad luck

 

[Yourlocalpoet]

I dont remember reading about an ultrasound but my point isnt that all info wasnt posted, it's that it wasnt post all in the original post. Correct me if I'm wrong. The info being in a combo of several posts will leave some not getting all the info. Specially when an alert is sent to someone that has already posted on your thread, they likely wont read any new posts, just the one they were alerted too.
Anyway the decision has to be yours and only yours. You have to live with whichever decision you choose. I'm just so happy that everything zo far is good and hoping it continues with no complications. Btw, antibiotics can make them not want to eat. It may take her awhile to do that. More important is to keep her hydrated. Offer her favorite foods to try and entice her to eat.
Good luck and keep us updated.

Yes, I was told the antibiotics may depress appetite, but as you said I’d like to see her drink more than anything. I’ve been told not to soak for a few weeks, which is annoying as it’s all I want to do!

 

[Yourlocalpoet]

Wow! I am glad you stuck to your guns and had the procedure. Thank you for sharing all of this information and I wish Essie a speedy recovery.

Thank you. How is the female you were concerned about doing?

 

[Yourlocalpoet]

Aw poor Esmeralda! I don't know anything about female torts reproductive systems but that seems a heck of a lot for a 14 inch tort to be carrying around inside her.
I hope she makes a full and speedy recovery from the operation and be back to her usual self sooner rather than later so that you can relax a bit too.
Take care

I know, the poor thing. She’s a little soldier.
Thank you. This has all been quite stressful and scary. I’m just glad it’s the school holidays so I’m not at work.

 

[JLMDVM]

Best wishes for a good recovery for your Essie. She looks like a lovely tortoise and it’s obvious how much you care for her! This has had to have been a very stressful experience for you, and I sure hope it improves soon.

 

[wellington]

Yes, I was told the antibiotics may depress appetite, but as you said I’d like to see her drink more than anything. I’ve been told not to soak for a few weeks, which is annoying as it’s all I want to do!

Cucumber, water melon, head lettuce are good for hydrating if you can get her to eat any of it. Not part of a good diet though but for now I would try to feed it. Also spritz all food with lots of water incase she does eat something.

 

[Lyn W]

How is Esmeralda doing?

 

[Yourlocalpoet]

How is Esmeralda doing?

Hi Lyn

She seems to be doing okay. She started eating day 2 after surgery (small amounts) which increased gradually and now is eating well everyday so I’m able to get her pain meds in her no problem.

The antibiotic injections proved tricky at first [emoji85] she’s so strong, and does not want me sticking a needle in her leg. Not that I blame her. I absolutely hate doing them but only three more to go, and they don’t seem to be affecting appetite.

She slept a lot of the day for the first few days, but now is walking around and climbing, thermoregulating, and looks pretty comfortable.

I haven’t seen her drink yet, which is bugging me as I’m not yet able to bathe her, but I’m giving her a lot of water dense food in addition to the usual grass and weeds so I’m hoping she’s hydrated enough - she’s had a few wees the past couple of days though and a small bowel movement yesterday.

She’s going to the vet Wednesday to check the fibreglass and get the okay to be bathed, back on normal substrate and outside again.

I guess it’s early days still but she’s strong, alert, eyes are bright and tongue is pink.

If only they could talk!

 

[Lyn W]

Hi Lyn

She seems to be doing okay. She started eating day 2 after surgery (small amounts) which increased gradually and now is eating well everyday so I’m able to get her pain meds in her no problem.

The antibiotic injections proved tricky at first [emoji85] she’s so strong, and does not want me sticking a needle in her leg. Not that I blame her. I absolutely hate doing them but only three more to go, and they don’t seem to be affecting appetite.

She slept a lot of the day for the first few days, but now is walking around and climbing, thermoregulating, and looks pretty comfortable.

I haven’t seen her drink yet, which is bugging me as I’m not yet able to bathe her, but I’m giving her a lot of water dense food in addition to the usual grass and weeds so I’m hoping she’s hydrated enough - she’s had a few wees the past couple of days though and a small bowel movement yesterday.

She’s going to the vet Wednesday to check the fibreglass and get the okay to be bathed, back on normal substrate and outside again.

I guess it’s early days still but she’s strong, alert, eyes are bright and tongue is pink.

If only they could talk!

That's really good news!
I'm so glad she seems to have recovered well from the op.
Good luck with the appointment with the vet and I hope she can soon get back to her normal routines.

 

[Yourlocalpoet]

Update: So Essie continues to be recovering well. She’s finished her antibiotic injections and pain meds now, and everything appears to be okay.

She has started soaks again, 5 minutes every other day, and has been outside for an hour every other day since last Wednesday. I’m putting Reptoboost in the bath water and she has drank in the bath several times. Outside she’s alert, active, grazing and drinking.



She’s eating quite a lot everyday, and even tolerating Nutrobal dusting (before she would smell it and leave the food that was dusted).

She had a pretty big bowel movement on Friday, after her second bath, and is peeing pretty much every other day. Her pee is slightly yellow/pale green - vet says most likely due to the stress her liver has been under as a result of the follicular stasis, and drug metabolism, but vet isn’t too concerned right now.

Because one of the proposed causes of follicular statis can be due to an underlying viral disease, they swabbed her for Herpesvirus but it came back negative.

Think that’s about all to report for now.

 

[Maro2Bear]

Update: So Essie continues to be recovering well. She’s finished her antibiotic injections and pain meds now, and everything appears to be okay.

She has started soaks again, 5 minutes every other day, and has been outside for an hour every other day since last Wednesday. I’m putting Reptoboost in the bath water and she has drank in the bath several times. Outside she’s alert, active, grazing and drinking.

View attachment 278866

She’s eating quite a lot everyday, and even tolerating Nutrobal dusting (before she would smell it and leave the food that was dusted).

She had a pretty big bowel movement on Friday, after her second bath, and is peeing pretty much every other day. Her pee is slightly yellow/pale green - vet says most likely due to the stress her liver has been under as a result of the follicular stasis, and drug metabolism, but vet isn’t too concerned right now.

Because one of the proposed causes of follicular statis can be due to an underlying viral disease, they swabbed her for Herpesvirus but it came back negative.

Think that’s about all to report for now.

View attachment 278867

Nice sunny day in Yorkshire - good smile on your torty.

 

[EllieMay]

Wonderful news!!! Hope all continues to go well.

 

[Sleppo]

So glad she's recovering well, she sure is a pretty lady!