Enrichment =Health?

EMILY C ROIPHE

New Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2016
Messages
5
Ok. The pyramid thing shames ME, but I've been assured does NOT bother my 6-7 inch african leopard tortoise.

But isn't it simple math in terms of overfeeding?

Energy in (calories) must be not to much greater or lesser than energy out (exercise).

Do they still need a humid hide after they are no longer babies?

We just moved to New Mexico high desert, so he'll get more outdoor time, but still.

I imagine in wild they forage all day, using their mouths and other senses to test: edible, not edible.

They probably cover a lot of ground.

Can't help but think sticking him in a pile of store bought produce sprinkled with Carolina Tortoise supply timothy hay etc powder is the equivalent of driving him to Mcdonalds, getting a huge meal, then driving him home.

He's gonna get fat.

And bored.

Yes, I know their brain structure doesn't allow for human type boredom. I just mean under stimulated.

I put his food around in a treasure trail. He only follows about half of it then goes to hide.

I think that means he's full.

My partner thinks it means he should put all the food in a pile so tortoise can find it.

I also suspect that radiccio, which tortoise would eat nothing else but, is a high calorie, EXPENSIVE treat for hipster tortoises and should be doled out like desert...sparingly.

So:

Help us resolve this issue:

Can you overfeed a tortoise with storebought and Pet Supply powder?

If they stop eating is it because they are full or because they are iN DESPAIR at having to look for their food?

Do they need a humid hide past infancy?
 

Robber

Active Member
10 Year Member!
Joined
Jun 19, 2013
Messages
191
Location (City and/or State)
MO, USA
Ok. The pyramid thing shames ME, but I've been assured does NOT bother my 6-7 inch african leopard tortoise.

But isn't it simple math in terms of overfeeding?

Energy in (calories) must be not to much greater or lesser than energy out (exercise).

Do they still need a humid hide after they are no longer babies?

We just moved to New Mexico high desert, so he'll get more outdoor time, but still.

I imagine in wild they forage all day, using their mouths and other senses to test: edible, not edible.

They probably cover a lot of ground.

Can't help but think sticking him in a pile of store bought produce sprinkled with Carolina Tortoise supply timothy hay etc powder is the equivalent of driving him to Mcdonalds, getting a huge meal, then driving him home.

He's gonna get fat.

And bored.

Yes, I know their brain structure doesn't allow for human type boredom. I just mean under stimulated.

I put his food around in a treasure trail. He only follows about half of it then goes to hide.

I think that means he's full.

My partner thinks it means he should put all the food in a pile so tortoise can find it.

I also suspect that radiccio, which tortoise would eat nothing else but, is a high calorie, EXPENSIVE treat for hipster tortoises and should be doled out like desert...sparingly.

So:

Help us resolve this issue:

Can you overfeed a tortoise with storebought and Pet Supply powder?

If they stop eating is it because they are full or because they are iN DESPAIR at having to look for their food?

Do they need a humid hide past infancy?

Pyramiding most likely has very little/nothing to do with caloric intake, at least not on its own. Specimens that eat massive amounts and exhibit very rapid growth do not necessarily pyramid.

Unless you have a very small tortoise(hatchling) in a HUGE enclosure, there is little to no chance that they aren't finding it. I tend to think stimulating moving around and grazing/browsing is a good thing, although there is only so much you can do to recreate that indoors. I think some specimens may be more apt to eat in this manner given that they naturally are stop-and-go eaters. Most however will happily sit and down a huge pile of food, though.

It is pretty hard to make a herbivorous tortoise fat, but certainly too much nutrient rich foods is not ideal and can throw off their system a bit, so. If you make sure they get a good varied high fiber diet outside throughout the warmer months, then you shouldn't have too much to worry about when you have to lean heavier on produce in the winter, just try to infuse with lower calorie higher fiber items when you can(wet the radicchio and cover it with shredded hay, for instance).

I don't know if anyone has definitively answered the humidity question, but certainly the higher humidity becomes less essential as they gain some size and are not as prone to dehydrating; I would say by the time they have reached 4" or 5", you can safely get away with less overall humidity, but there is no reason to deprive them of the option of a humid hide provided the temperatures are kept high enough.
 

Gillian M

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2014
Messages
15,417
Location (City and/or State)
Jordan
Please post pics of your tort as well as enclosure if the latter is available. If on the other hand he's to remain outdoors, then be careful as torts can:

a) hide
b) get stolen
c) get lost

As for pyramiding; well, humidity is required here. Please soak your tort daily in warm water. I do that and I even spray his enclosure every night, since I live in Jordan where the climate is a very dry one.:(

And a very warm welcome to the forum!:tort:
 

EMILY C ROIPHE

New Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2016
Messages
5
Please post pics of your tort as well as enclosure if the latter is available. If on the other hand he's to remain outdoors, then be careful as torts can:

a) hide
b) get stolen
c) get lost

As for pyramiding; well, humidity is required here. Please soak your tort daily in warm water. I do that and I even spray his enclosure every night, since I live in Jordan where the climate is a very dry one.:(

And a very warm welcome to the forum!:tort:
Thanks so much.
right now my tortoise's "enclosure" = a motel room in Albuquerqe (where he surprised the maid and she actually SCREAMED). When hub's job starts and we get permanent digs, there will be pics. I would NEVER put a tortoise outside without a dig-thru proof enclosure, right?
 

EMILY C ROIPHE

New Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2016
Messages
5
Pyramiding most likely has very little/nothing to do with caloric intake, at least not on its own. Specimens that eat massive amounts and exhibit very rapid growth do not necessarily pyramid.

Unless you have a very small tortoise(hatchling) in a HUGE enclosure, there is little to no chance that they aren't finding it. I tend to think stimulating moving around and grazing/browsing is a good thing, although there is only so much you can do to recreate that indoors. I think some specimens may be more apt to eat in this manner given that they naturally are stop-and-go eaters. Most however will happily sit and down a huge pile of food, though.

It is pretty hard to make a herbivorous tortoise fat, but certainly too much nutrient rich foods is not ideal and can throw off their system a bit, so. If you make sure they get a good varied high fiber diet outside throughout the warmer months, then you shouldn't have too much to worry about when you have to lean heavier on produce in the winter, just try to infuse with lower calorie higher fiber items when you can(wet the radicchio and cover it with shredded hay, for instance).

I don't know if anyone has definitively answered the humidity question, but certainly the higher humidity becomes less essential as they gain some size and are not as prone to dehydrating; I would say by the time they have reached 4" or 5", you can safely get away with less overall humidity, but there is no reason to deprive them of the option of a humid hide provided the temperatures are kept high enough.

Thanks so much for your input.
We are in a motel now, waiting for hub's job to start and house to open up. It WILL have a yard. Humid hide info was much appreciated. There's so much conflicted info, but I am sure I can raise a reasonably happy, healthy tortoise by listening to them what knows :)
 

dmmj

The member formerly known as captain awesome
10 Year Member!
Joined
Aug 15, 2008
Messages
19,695
Location (City and/or State)
CA
while it is possible to get an overweight tortoise its very hard. When I feed mine I always place the food in different spots every day so they have to look for it.
 

J.P.

Active Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2014
Messages
184
Location (City and/or State)
Philippines
I observed that my leopards do not like bright sunlight. Their grazing pen used to be without any shade and on very sunny days, they go straight to their favorite shelters as soon as I bring them out, even if I offer their favorite food. But on shady days or in late afternoon, I see them roam and eat a lot, even if all I give them is plain grass. I suspect this is because their natural habitat is not dessert, it has trees, tall grass, and bushes.

Since I put an awning that shades about 3 quarters of their pen, they are out and about for most of the day, eating and still searching for food after they have finsihed what I gave. I am now trying to grow a mulberry tree for shade so I can get rid of the ugly awning.

I hope this will work for your leopards too.
 

J.P.

Active Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2014
Messages
184
Location (City and/or State)
Philippines
while it is possible to get an overweight tortoise its very hard. When I feed mine I always place the food in different spots every day so they have to look for it.
I cannot discount the possibility of making a tortoise obese, but I also can not think of how that will happen. Tort digestion is rather inefficient. If they eat too much, I think partially digested food wiill just go out the other way to make room for the new food.
 
Top