Enclosure advice/tips for hatchling Burmese Star Tortoise

Ishjohn

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Chino, CA
Hello there,

I was wondering if anyone can offer some advice with my enclosure. I got this 4x2 cause I got a sweet deal for $100 but I'm worried that the height is a little too short. It's 12 inches in height. So I am not sure if I should exchange it with something else. Or just keep it.

Some things that I'm using are: (I paid about $200 for this whole enclosure including everything that's inside it)
- 50 watt basking bulb to keep the basking spot at about 90-95 degrees farenheit because it is somewhat close to the ground so I can't really go any higher or else it'll reach the 100s.
- I am using forest floor as substrate at the moment in hopes to keep humidity to 80% all over the tank.
- Fluorescent uvb tube
- A big shallow water dish that I picked up from home depot.

I was wondering if you guys could offer some tips or advice to properly setup this enclosure for my hatchling Burmese Star Tortoise. Like how to keep the temperature at 80 for the cool side because at the moment it stays at about 70 degrees and also keeping the humidity constant within the enclosure. Or if I should remove or add some stuff to properly set it up. I attached some photos as I just barely set it up.

Or switch out the enclosure entirely.

Thank you for all the help in advance. I will truly appreciate it.
 

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Last edited:

JoesMum

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I recommend this thread by @Tom and hopefully it will answer many of your questions
 

Ishjohn

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I would greatly appreciate any suggestions or tips in making this enclosure more than enough for my tortoise. If I have to install another light fixture on the left side or something like that. And what do I use if that is something that is recommended. I am trying to keep my enclosure temps at 80 all around and 90-95 on the basking side. Also in regards to humidity as well. Thank you again.
 

KarenSoCal

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Hello, and welcome to the forum!

I have a 2.5 year old Burmese Star, but I just got him 6 months ago, so didn't raise him from a hatchling. But I can help you out.

First, the UVB tube should be mounted on the ceiling facing straight down. Since you only have 12" to work with, the light is very close to the tortoise's height. Many of us like the Arcadia T5 HO 12% tube, but since you are so close to the tort, you don't need a strong light. That tube is made in a 6% also...that's what I think I'd use. The UV tube only needs to be on for 1-2 hours daily in the mid day, like 11-1:00, or 12:00-2:00. Another point...if you can put the tortoise outside for an hour 2 or 3 times a week, with access to unfiltered sun, most of the year...you don't need indoor UVB at all. He will be fine without it during bad weather, or while the temps are too cold. This is good, because UVB may be linked to pyramiding in some species.

The trick to keeping humidity and heat high enough is having a closed chamber enclosure, vs an open topped one. You already have the closed chamber, so that's a hurdle you are over. You need to use fine grade orchid bark, cypress mulch, or coco coir for the substrate. You pour water into the substrate and mix it up good with your hands. You want it very damp, but not drenched in the entire enclosure.

You need to get a CHE to increase your temps. Usually during daytime the basking light will keep temps high enough, then at night, when the basking light goes off, the CHE, controlled by a thermostat, clicks on. If you set the thermostat to 80°F, it will only turn on the CHE when the temp falls below 80°. CHE's burn very hot, so they must have a ceramic socket.

Burmese stars are very prone to pyramiding, so humidity is extra important. Also, basking lights are dessicating, so it's an advantage to discourage basking by keeping the enclosure really warm. I run my enclosure at 95°-100° basking spot, warm end ~94-98°, and cool end ~85-90°. At night it drops to 82°, when the CHE's come on. At these temps my tort never basks. He does, however, sleep near the basking area where his shell runs about 92°.

Plants are great to help raise humidity, plus torts love sleeping/hiding under them. Pothos and spider plants are good, along with prayer plants and Boston fern. They are safe if he nibbles on them, as long as you get plants that aren't loaded with chemicals. Try to get cuttings from family and friends.

I think getting an enclosure with a ceiling of 24" would make life easier for you. With substrate, 12" just doesn't give you enough space for plants and puts lights right on top of the baby.

I have more for you, but I need to stop for tonight. Read this over, let others comment, and come back with questions or concerns. I also have links for items you need to buy.
 

Ishjohn

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Chino, CA
Thank you so much for the help so far it's been very informative for me. That is my setup at the moment but I could adjust if needed of course.

Some things to note and some questions:

- For my enclosure itself, I really wish I could've gotten a 24" tall one but unfortunately in my area the best I could find was 12" tall one and for a $100 4x2 it was hard to pass up. That being said, I guess part of the reason why I put the UVB tube on the side facing sideways is I thought that would cover more of the enclosure rather than it facing downwards and cover only part of it but maybe that would not be an effective method. Some questions to add regarding that are:

Would you recommend me just getting a longer tube so that I can mount it on top of the enclosure facing down and cover more area? At my local pet store they only have reptisun 10.0 and 5.0 at the moment. Which one would you recommend?

Where should I mount the CHE in the enclosure and what wattage should I get? Should I mount it sideways on the cool right side since I have a basking light on the right side?

Where would I place the temperature outlet as well?

- I am currently using forest floor cypress mulch at the moment. Would that be okay?

That being said any other recommendations?
 

Ishjohn

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Chino, CA
Hello, and welcome to the forum!

I have a 2.5 year old Burmese Star, but I just got him 6 months ago, so didn't raise him from a hatchling. But I can help you out.

First, the UVB tube should be mounted on the ceiling facing straight down. Since you only have 12" to work with, the light is very close to the tortoise's height. Many of us like the Arcadia T5 HO 12% tube, but since you are so close to the tort, you don't need a strong light. That tube is made in a 6% also...that's what I think I'd use. The UV tube only needs to be on for 1-2 hours daily in the mid day, like 11-1:00, or 12:00-2:00. Another point...if you can put the tortoise outside for an hour 2 or 3 times a week, with access to unfiltered sun, most of the year...you don't need indoor UVB at all. He will be fine without it during bad weather, or while the temps are too cold. This is good, because UVB may be linked to pyramiding in some species.

The trick to keeping humidity and heat high enough is having a closed chamber enclosure, vs an open topped one. You already have the closed chamber, so that's a hurdle you are over. You need to use fine grade orchid bark, cypress mulch, or coco coir for the substrate. You pour water into the substrate and mix it up good with your hands. You want it very damp, but not drenched in the entire enclosure.

You need to get a CHE to increase your temps. Usually during daytime the basking light will keep temps high enough, then at night, when the basking light goes off, the CHE, controlled by a thermostat, clicks on. If you set the thermostat to 80°F, it will only turn on the CHE when the temp falls below 80°. CHE's burn very hot, so they must have a ceramic socket.

Burmese stars are very prone to pyramiding, so humidity is extra important. Also, basking lights are dessicating, so it's an advantage to discourage basking by keeping the enclosure really warm. I run my enclosure at 95°-100° basking spot, warm end ~94-98°, and cool end ~85-90°. At night it drops to 82°, when the CHE's come on. At these temps my tort never basks. He does, however, sleep near the basking area where his shell runs about 92°.

Plants are great to help raise humidity, plus torts love sleeping/hiding under them. Pothos and spider plants are good, along with prayer plants and Boston fern. They are safe if he nibbles on them, as long as you get plants that aren't loaded with chemicals. Try to get cuttings from family and friends.

I think getting an enclosure with a ceiling of 24" would make life easier for you. With substrate, 12" just doesn't give you enough space for plants and puts lights right on top of the baby.

I have more for you, but I need to stop for tonight. Read this over, let others comment, and come back with questions or concerns. I also have links for items you need to buy.

Thank you so much for the help so far it's been very informative for me. That is my setup at the moment but I could adjust if needed of course.

Some things to note and some questions:

- For my enclosure itself, I really wish I could've gotten a 24" tall one but unfortunately in my area the best I could find was 12" tall one and for a $100 4x2 it was hard to pass up. That being said, I guess part of the reason why I put the UVB tube on the side facing sideways is I thought that would cover more of the enclosure rather than it facing downwards and cover only part of it but maybe that would not be an effective method. Some questions to add regarding that are:

Would you recommend me just getting a longer tube so that I can mount it on top of the enclosure facing down and cover more area? If ever I will probably purchase the aracadia but not quite sure if i should go with 6% or 12%.

Where should I mount the CHE in the enclosure and what wattage should I get? Should I mount it sideways on the cool right side since I have a basking light on the right side?

Where would I place the temperature outlet as well?

- I am currently using forest floor cypress mulch at the moment. Would that be okay?

That being said any other recommendations?

Sorry I think it double posted
 

turtlesteve

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The 12” tall enclosure is not optimal, but I have used short enclosures and they are workable. Similarly, 4x2 feet is on the small side but OK until the tortoise hits 4” or so (which could be less than a year).

As mentioned, mount the UV on the ceiling pointing down. Use the reptisun 10.0 bulbs, they give acceptable UV at 8-10”. You could get a longer tube or put one on each side of the basking bulb. On the other hand the single fixture is workable, you don’t actually need to flood the whole enclosure with UV. It does need to be next to the basking light though.

Be careful the basking area is not too hot at this distance. I would personally not let it get over 95F. You do need something to heat the tank at night but a CHE is problematic again due to height. In this situation I would attach a heat mat to the ceiling of the tank (never underneath) and run it 24/7 - for this purpose I like the 18 watt 10x20” mats sold for starting seeds indoors. They make bigger mats of the same style too, but I like to use “just enough” so that I don’t need a thermostat. One may work in a small cage like this.

The cypress mulch is fine and holds humidity well.
 

Ishjohn

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Chino, CA
The 12” tall enclosure is not optimal, but I have used short enclosures and they are workable. Similarly, 4x2 feet is on the small side but OK until the tortoise hits 4” or so (which could be less than a year).

As mentioned, mount the UV on the ceiling pointing down. Use the reptisun 10.0 bulbs, they give acceptable UV at 8-10”. You could get a longer tube or put one on each side of the basking bulb. On the other hand the single fixture is workable, you don’t actually need to flood the whole enclosure with UV. It does need to be next to the basking light though.

Be careful the basking area is not too hot at this distance. I would personally not let it get over 95F. You do need something to heat the tank at night but a CHE is problematic again due to height. In this situation I would attach a heat mat to the ceiling of the tank (never underneath) and run it 24/7 - for this purpose I like the 18 watt 10x20” mats sold for starting seeds indoors. They make bigger mats of the same style too, but I like to use “just enough” so that I don’t need a thermostat. One may work in a small cage like this.

The cypress mulch is fine and holds humidity well.

Am I able to place the heat mat on the back of the enclosure sideways and use the digital thermostat? As I was able to purchase an Arcadia 36 inch 6% uvb fixture that I will attach on top of the enclosure so I might not have space to attach a heat mat on top. Or any other suggestions? Sorry I am just trying to work with the enclosure I just bought. Thank you so much in advance
 

turtlesteve

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Am I able to place the heat mat on the back of the enclosure sideways and use the digital thermostat? As I was able to purchase an Arcadia 36 inch 6% uvb fixture that I will attach on top of the enclosure so I might not have space to attach a heat mat on top. Or any other suggestions? Sorry I am just trying to work with the enclosure I just bought. Thank you so much in advance


I would not put it on a wall. If the cage is 2x4 feet, the heat mat is only 10” wide I am thinking there should be room?
 

Ishjohn

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I would not put it on a wall. If the cage is 2x4 feet, the heat mat is only 10” wide I am thinking there should be room?
It is 4 ft (48 inches) long and 2 ft (24 inches) wide. And 1 ft tall. I am planning on placing the arcadia 36" uvb fixture on the middle of the top of enclosure facing down next to the basking light.

I attached some photos and this is how it looks right now at the moment. But only having issues now with controlling humidity and temperature within the tank so I am trying to modify to get the best results.

Once again, I thank you and appreciate all your help. Hoping to get everything settled by the end of today at least.
 

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turtlesteve

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You will still need to monitor night temps using the heat mat for a few days. 18 watts is not much but if the cage is well sealed/insulated it should do the trick. If you need a few degrees warmer, the next thing I would do is cut a 2x4’ sheet of rigid foam insulation to place on on top of cage to reduce heat loss.
 

Tom

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There are four elements to heating and lighting:
  1. Basking bulb. I use 65 watt incandescent floods from the hardware store. Some people will need bigger, or smaller wattage bulbs. Let your thermometer be your guide. I run them on a timer for about 12 hours and adjust the height to get the correct basking temp under them. I also like to use a flat rock of some sort directly under the bulb. You need to check the temp with a thermometer directly under the bulb and get it to around 95-100F (36-37C).
  2. Ambient heat maintenance. I use ceramic heating elements or radiant heat panels set on thermostats to maintain ambient above 80 degrees day and night for tropical species. You'd only need day heat for a temperate species like Testudo or DT, as long as your house stays above 60F (15-16C) at night.
  3. Light. I use LEDs for this purpose. Something in the 5000-6500K color range will look the best. Most bulbs at the store are in the 2500K range and they look yellowish. Strip or screw-in bulb types are both fine.
  4. UV. If you can get your tortoise outside for an hour 2 or 3 times a week, you won't need indoor UV. If you want it anyway, get one of the newer HO type fluorescent tubes. Which type will depend on mounting height. 5.0 bulbs make almost no UV. You need a meter to check this: https://www.solarmeter.com/model65.html
Your enclosure can work. Looking at the above info, here is what I would do:

1. Get rid of that spot bulb and replace it with a round one. Somewhere between 25-60 watts will probably work, but only your thermometer can answer that. This will be tough since you can't buy incandescent bulbs in CA anymore. Someone out of state will have to order bulbs for you and then have them delivered to your CA address. Once you find what works, order some extras.
2. You are lacking this one and its an easy fix. Get a radiant heat panel and mount it near the middle of the ceiling. Set it on a thermostat. Adjust it to 80 degrees using multiple digital thermometers in the enclosure. Throw away those stick-on analog types that you have. I'd get the 21" size RHP. Its about 78 watts.
3. You need ambient light. LED strips or screw in bulbs from HD or Lowes work great for this. Put it on a 12 hour timer along with your heat bulb.
4. You don't need more UV. You can use that one, but as Steve suggested, mount it on the ceiling over near the heat lamp. Opinions will vary, but at that height, with that bulb, in your enclosure, I would set the UV tube on a timer for 4 hours mid day. This will simulate the mid day UV spike and brightness that happens outside each day.

More questions are welcome. Congrats on the baby. They are a fantastic species. I just hatched a few myself:
IMG_2211.JPG
 

Ishjohn

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Thank you so much for the advice helps a ton.

There are four elements to heating and lighting:
  1. Basking bulb. I use 65 watt incandescent floods from the hardware store. Some people will need bigger, or smaller wattage bulbs. Let your thermometer be your guide. I run them on a timer for about 12 hours and adjust the height to get the correct basking temp under them. I also like to use a flat rock of some sort directly under the bulb. You need to check the temp with a thermometer directly under the bulb and get it to around 95-100F (36-37C).
  2. Ambient heat maintenance. I use ceramic heating elements or radiant heat panels set on thermostats to maintain ambient above 80 degrees day and night for tropical species. You'd only need day heat for a temperate species like Testudo or DT, as long as your house stays above 60F (15-16C) at night.
  3. Light. I use LEDs for this purpose. Something in the 5000-6500K color range will look the best. Most bulbs at the store are in the 2500K range and they look yellowish. Strip or screw-in bulb types are both fine.
  4. UV. If you can get your tortoise outside for an hour 2 or 3 times a week, you won't need indoor UV. If you want it anyway, get one of the newer HO type fluorescent tubes. Which type will depend on mounting height. 5.0 bulbs make almost no UV. You need a meter to check this: https://www.solarmeter.com/model65.html
Your enclosure can work. Looking at the above info, here is what I would do:

1. Get rid of that spot bulb and replace it with a round one. Somewhere between 25-60 watts will probably work, but only your thermometer can answer that. This will be tough since you can't buy incandescent bulbs in CA anymore. Someone out of state will have to order bulbs for you and then have them delivered to your CA address. Once you find what works, order some extras.
2. You are lacking this one and its an easy fix. Get a radiant heat panel and mount it near the middle of the ceiling. Set it on a thermostat. Adjust it to 80 degrees using multiple digital thermometers in the enclosure. Throw away those stick-on analog types that you have. I'd get the 21" size RHP. Its about 78 watts.
3. You need ambient light. LED strips or screw in bulbs from HD or Lowes work great for this. Put it on a 12 hour timer along with your heat bulb.
4. You don't need more UV. You can use that one, but as Steve suggested, mount it on the ceiling over near the heat lamp. Opinions will vary, but at that height, with that bulb, in your enclosure, I would set the UV tube on a timer for 4 hours mid day. This will simulate the mid day UV spike and brightness that happens outside each day.

More questions are welcome. Congrats on the baby. They are a fantastic species. I just hatched a few myself:
View attachment 313177

1. Would it matter if the incandescent is clear or tinted white? Or alternatively, would a flood light work as well? Or would it be too strong at this distance?

2. It seems like most or if not all places are sold out of the radiant heat panel. Would the heating pad on top of the enclosure with a temperature outlet that was suggested earlier work as well?

3. I will install LED strip lights that I have from amazon around the enclosure.

4. I ended up purchasing an Arcadia 36" fixture with a 6% uvb. Would that be okay? Or is it too big/long to be in the enclosure?

Thank you so much for all the suggestions and help so far.
 

Tom

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Thank you so much for the advice helps a ton.



1. Would it matter if the incandescent is clear or tinted white? Or alternatively, would a flood light work as well? Or would it be too strong at this distance?

2. It seems like most or if not all places are sold out of the radiant heat panel. Would the heating pad on top of the enclosure with a temperature outlet that was suggested earlier work as well?

3. I will install LED strip lights that I have from amazon around the enclosure.

4. I ended up purchasing an Arcadia 36" fixture with a 6% uvb. Would that be okay? Or is it too big/long to be in the enclosure?

Thank you so much for all the suggestions and help so far.
1. I prefer the "frosted" type bulbs. I don't think there is a flood that is low enough wattage for that height.

2. No. It won't work.

3. :)

4. I think it might be too much at that distance. I wouldn't run it until you put a meter under it and check it. You don't want to burn your tortoises eyes to find out it was too close.
 

turtlesteve

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@Tom, really? I have no specific experience with this type of cage, but the 18w mats are workable in bin enclosures of a vaguely similar size. Suspended an inch or so under the ceiling, I can get ~8-10F warmer than ambient (80F if ambient is 70-72) as long as there aren’t big air leaks. It’s just barely enough, but that’s on purpose. A more powerful heater needs a thermostat and I expect thermostats to fail. I learned this from keeping saltwater aquariums because some heaters were notorious for failing “on.” An oversized heater will kill things and a “just barely enough” heater won’t. In 20 years I have had at least 4 immersion heaters fail, of three different brands. I have also had a reptile egg incubator fail and cook tortoise eggs. They always stuck “on”. So, maybe I am over blowing things, but this my logic. I still use thermostats if I have to, but using minimal heater power so that it will not cause harm if the thermostat fails.

@Ishjohn, the key point here is that the enclosure needs to be 80F everywhere at night. The radiant heat panels are unquestionably better and the flexible mats are just a cheap option if you need less power. The only question in my mind is proper sizing for this cage. 78 watts seems like a lot for a closed chamber and will require a thermostat. The panels are available in a variety of wattages, both higher and lower. Tom has a lot more experience than I do, especially with cages like this - if he says you need 78 watts, I trust his judgement.
 

Ishjohn

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1. I prefer the "frosted" type bulbs. I don't think there is a flood that is low enough wattage for that height.

2. No. It won't work.

3. :)

4. I think it might be too much at that distance. I wouldn't run it until you put a meter under it and check it. You don't want to burn your tortoises eyes to find out it was too close.
Thank you so much for the input and sorry for all the questions.

1. I have a Powersun MVB 80 watt that I purchased way back. I tested it and seems like it keeps basking spot constantly at 95-100 degrees. Would that be a better alternative rather than buying a separate uvb/uva and basking light and fixture? What is the proper solar meter for the tortoise to not be blinded?

2. I was able to find a RHP 21" 80 watt that you recommended that I will install on the ceiling of the enclosure alongside a temperature outlet to keep overall temps at at least 80 degrees.

3. Amazon led strip light would not be too bright for them right?

4.The one currently attached to my enclosure is this one which I had beforehand for my skink:


is it too strong or too weak or do you have any other recommendations?

5. Lastly, Do I also mist it once or twice a day to keep humidity at 80%?

Thank you very much for all the input and help so far Tom and everybody. I truly appreciate it. It has helped me greatly.
 

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Ishjohn

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Thank you so much for the input and sorry for all the questions.

1. I have a Powersun MVB 80 watt that I purchased way back. I tested it and seems like it keeps basking spot constantly at 95-100 degrees. Would that be a better alternative rather than buying a separate uvb/uva and basking light and fixture? What is the proper solar meter for the tortoise to not be blinded?

2. I was able to find a RHP 21" 80 watt that you recommended that I will install on the ceiling of the enclosure alongside a temperature outlet to keep overall temps at at least 80 degrees.

3. Amazon led strip light would not be too bright for them right?

4.The one currently attached to my enclosure is this one which I had beforehand for my skink:


is it too strong or too weak or do you have any other recommendations?

5. Lastly, Do I also mist it once or twice a day to keep humidity at 80%?

Thank you very much for all the input and help so far Tom and everybody. I truly appreciate it. It has helped me greatly.
Edit to #1 of my previous post: it seems like the mvb is bringing temps to 105-110 so probably would not use it and switch to a zoomed 50 watt basking light for now until I can figure out how to get an incandescent bulb here to CA.
 

Tom

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Thank you so much for the input and sorry for all the questions.

1. I have a Powersun MVB 80 watt that I purchased way back. I tested it and seems like it keeps basking spot constantly at 95-100 degrees. Would that be a better alternative rather than buying a separate uvb/uva and basking light and fixture? What is the proper solar meter for the tortoise to not be blinded?

2. I was able to find a RHP 21" 80 watt that you recommended that I will install on the ceiling of the enclosure alongside a temperature outlet to keep overall temps at at least 80 degrees.

3. Amazon led strip light would not be too bright for them right?

4.The one currently attached to my enclosure is this one which I had beforehand for my skink:


is it too strong or too weak or do you have any other recommendations?

5. Lastly, Do I also mist it once or twice a day to keep humidity at 80%?

Thank you very much for all the input and help so far Tom and everybody. I truly appreciate it. It has helped me greatly.
1. You don't want MVBs or spot bulbs for basking. Both will cause pyramiding.

2. What is a temperature outlet? You'll need a thermostat to control the RHP, and a digital thermometer to tell the temperature around the enclosure and properly set the thermostat to the correct temperature.

3. Should be fine.

4. That one should be fine at the distance you are using it. Only a Solarmeter 6.5 can tell you if its strong enough.

5. In a closed chamber with damp substrate and a large water bowl, you shouldn't have to mist ever. If you do, there is too much ventilation, or not enough evaporation.
 

turtlesteve

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That type doesn't produce much heat, and doesn't project the heat at all. Try it. Tell me what you get.

I have, for a few years now. As I mentioned above, it keeps the enclosure 8-10F over ambient at night by heating the air. They don’t project heat like you need for basking, but that’s fine for night heat.
 
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