Emergency help request (baby sleeps constantly)

ZEROPILOT

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Yes it is soft, like we can push it in. We raised the lamp so high because the temp in that spot was over 100 degrees when lowered.
It looks like maybe metabolic bone disease caused by bad diet and not enough UV.
You are correct. Temperatures over 90 stress out a Redfoot tortoise and they will overheat and die.
I always recommend a strip florescent fixture with a 5.0 tube.
 

MissyGru

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The enclosure is too dry. Redfoots are a tropical forest species requiring high humidity, especially at this age, and a steady 80F /27C day and night.

This tortoise needs an enclosure with a roof and damp, not just sprayed, substrate.

Redfoots don't bask, so you provide the heat with a Ceramic Heat Emitter and use that with a thermostat. You then need a separate UVB tube light to provide the essential UVB

They are omnivores requiring a mixture of greens, fruit and protein and a tiny sprinkle of calcium powder 3 times a week.

This is a good care sheet https://sites.google.com/site/tortoiselibrary/species-information/chelonoidis

@Anyfoot keeps this species in the UK
 

MissyGru

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@JoesMum Can you please send me a picture of what your setup looks like? I was assured by the breeder what we had setup was ok.
 

MissyGru

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It looks like maybe metabolic bone disease caused by bad diet and not enough UV.
You are correct. Temperatures over 90 stress out a Redfoot tortoise and they will overheat and die.
I always recommend a strip florescent fixture with a 5.0 tube.
What was wrong with the diet? I’m not understanding what was wrong there.

And is there any recovery from this disease with proper care?
 

Tom

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Every day, then about three - four times a week, then down to like 2 more recently when daughter took over.

I don't know red foots because my environment is too hot and dry, so I don't keep them, BUT, two soaks a week in an open topped, low humidity, dry enclosure would be enough to dry out a baby sulcata, leopard or star after a few weeks, so I'll bet this is a factor.

@ZEROPILOT is very experienced with RFs. Am I right here ZP?

The symptoms being reported are consistent with the"Hatchling Failure Syndrome" that we see when babies are started too dry at the breeders place, or kept too dry in their new homes. I can't recall ever seeing this with a RF because most breeders do a decent job of housing them with humidity and soaking them often enough, unlike the species that are mis-perceived as "desert" animals.
 

ZEROPILOT

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Enclosed like this.
Strip florescent mounted inside. No bright lights and 84 degrees with 90%humidity
 

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MissyGru

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I don't know red foots because my environment is too hot and dry, so I don't keep them, BUT, two soaks a week in an open topped, low humidity, dry enclosure would be enough to dry out a baby sulcata, leopard or star after a few weeks, so I'll bet this is a factor.

@ZEROPILOT is very experienced with RFs. Am I right here ZP?

The symptoms being reported are consistent with the"Hatchling Failure Syndrome" that we see when babies are started too dry at the breeders place, or kept too dry in their new homes. I can't recall ever seeing this with a RF because most breeders do a decent job of housing them with humidity and soaking them often enough, unlike the species that are mis-perceived as "desert" animals.
Thank you for the information. This is just awful.
 

JoesMum

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I don't keep redfoots so I can't help with photos.

You need to address the temperature, humidity and especially the UVB issues as a matter of urgency.

Go and get a CHE and thermostat and a UVB 5.0 tube and fluorescent tube fitting. Mount the UVB tube fitting on a plank of wood and balance it on crates if necessary.

Diet wise this tortoise should be eating protein, eg a little boiled egg mashed complete with its shell, as well as the veggies.
 

ZEROPILOT

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I don't know red foots because my environment is too hot and dry, so I don't keep them, BUT, two soaks a week in an open topped, low humidity, dry enclosure would be enough to dry out a baby sulcata, leopard or star after a few weeks, so I'll bet this is a factor.

@ZEROPILOT is very experienced with RFs. Am I right here ZP?

The symptoms being reported are consistent with the"Hatchling Failure Syndrome" that we see when babies are started too dry at the breeders place, or kept too dry in their new homes. I can't recall ever seeing this with a RF because most breeders do a decent job of housing them with humidity and soaking them often enough, unlike the species that are mis-perceived as "desert" animals.
Yes. I'm hoping that it can be corrected. But I'm doubtful.
 
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MissyGru

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Enclosed like this.
Strip florescent mounted inside. No bright lights and 84 degrees with 90%humidity
Last pic is blurry... looks like a glass aqurium with a wood top? Apparently I’ve done it all wrong. So many people told me the sweater box was the right way to go.
 

MissyGru

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I don't keep redfoots so I can't help with photos.

You need to address the temperature, humidity and especially the UVB issues as a matter of urgency.

Go and get a CHE and thermostat and a UVB 5.0 tube and fluorescent tube fitting. Mount the UVB tube fitting on a plank of wood and balance it on crates if necessary.

Diet wise this tortoise should be eating protein, eg a little boiled egg mashed complete with its shell, as well as the veggies.
Thank you, that helps
 

ZEROPILOT

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Last pic is blurry... looks like a glass aqurium with a wood top? Apparently I’ve done it all wrong. So many people told me the sweater box was the right way to go.
Glass with a plexiglass top.
This is how I keep my "Just hatched" babies.
My situation afterwards is different than yours up north. I then place them outside into secure pens to grow because our temperatures and humidity are both almost perfect.
You'd need to make something on a larger scale for your situation. An open topped enclosure for a high humidity tortoise is just a LOT of work.
 

Anyfoot

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It looks like a combination of low uvb for too long and no ambient temp to me. You can't maintain the correct temp and humidity in an open top enclosure. Your stuck between a rock and a hard place at the moment. He won't eat until temps are correct, and correcting the uvb won't save his life if he doesn't eat. So a major replan of your enclosure is needed. You need to convert what you have into a closed system so you can maintain an ambient temp around 86f (30c) with humidity at 80%+, at the same time up the vitamin D intake. I would convert into a closed system, provide heat with a CHE and uvb with a fluorescent uvb tube type light. Once he's eating add calcium with D3 powder to the diet to give him a boost.
You must soak every day in like warm water too.
I started with an open table and my 3 babies were very very lethargic. Joined this forum and converted to a closed system, the change was unreal. Your baby has a choice of sitting under that lamp to get warm or be at room temp. Room temp is too cold.

Good look.
 

ZEROPILOT

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One more thing to keep in mind when closing off the majority or all of the top of your enclosure is that UV light can NOT pass through glass, screen or plastic. That,s why I said I mount my fixture INSIDE of my enclosure. It's actually bolted/screwed into the plexiglass underside.
 

ZEROPILOT

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What was wrong with the diet? I’m not understanding what was wrong there.

And is there any recovery from this disease with proper care?
If he eats, he can stay strong and maybe recover.
Get him warm. From 82 to 88. Get him humid. 70 to 95%.
Keep him out of very bright lights. They stress out the shade loving Redfoot species.
Get some UV light on him in the form of a strip florescent.. (DO NOT buy a coiled, compact florescent.)
Offer some junk food. watermelon or strawberry.
Fingers crossed
 

MissyGru

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If he eats, he can stay strong and maybe recover.
Get him warm. From 82 to 88. Get him humid. 70 to 95%.
Keep him out of very bright lights. They stress out the shade loving Redfoot species.
Get some UV light on him in the form of a strip florescent.. (DO NOT buy a coiled, compact florescent.)
Offer some junk food. watermelon or strawberry.
Fingers crossed
Thank you all so much for your support with this. I will get him a strip light - I am not sure how I can covert this silly sweater box because it's only about 4 inches deep. as an emergency measure, I do have a 10 gall glass aquarium I can setup as a stop gap to try and help him. He is two inches long, at this stage I doubt he will mind the decrease in room to roam in the short term.

Last question, where does the CHE go in the tank?

Thanks again.
 

JoesMum

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Fora tiny tortoise an aquarium is fine. Probably too small once it is well, but that's thinking ahead

The CHE hangs from a lamp holder near the top and the thermostat goes at the opposite end. They get very hot, so require a special holder and must not be too close to the substrate.
 

MissyGru

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image.jpg image.jpg Ok all, here is what I was able to do in the last hour. Top is a screen but I closed off 2/3 with a towel. He is in his plastic hide with moist spagnum and I put a fake plant over him to shade him from the current heat lamp bright rays. Need to get the fluorescent tube and heat emitter today. The current stats are 86 deg by the hide and 90 under the lamp. Humidity is around 79%. Hopefully I can nurse our little baby back to health. Considering a tortoise smoothie in a very small feeder tube that I can put a little in his mouth for the next few days if he won’t eat. Will soak him again tonight. Thank you to everyone I am so grateful for how quickly you all came to Boogie’s aid. Say some prayers for the little tort.
 
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