Does my baby Indian Star have pneumonia?

Alexio

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Are you using a thermostat to regulate the heat mat? If not you need to unplug it heat mats can reach temps of over 130f. Your ground is burning hot and your air is room temp.
 
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Rzm7810

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I'm saying choke as well possibly. Just showed my dad who isn't a vet but is a DR and said looks and sounds like a choke more than anything.
 

Melissa N

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Are you using a thermostat to regulate the heat mat? If not you need to unplug it heat mats can reach temps of over 130f. Your ground is burning hot and your air is room temp.

Yes, I use a thermostat with the heat mat. It is pretty small it covers less than 1/3 of the tank. I only use it at night. It comes on if it drops below 78 degrees. My breeder told me not to use a CHE. So this was the only thing I could think of.
 

Melissa N

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I'm saying choke as well possibly. Just showed my dad who isn't a vet but is a DR and said looks and sounds like a choke more than anything.

She has made that sound a couple of times in the past while eating. One time she was drinking and the water came right back out of her mouth. Do you think maybe she had some kind of a problem with her throat, like a cyst? And maybe it just got worse over time?
 

G-stars

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Indian stars are very prone to RI's especially with high humidity and not being kept warm enough. I would be very cautious with the other two possibly having it. Unless of course you can prove he did choke.

The bubbles are leading me to think it's RI though.
 

Alexio

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Yes, I use a thermostat with the heat mat. It is pretty small it covers less than 1/3 of the tank. I only use it at night. It comes on if it drops below 78 degrees. My breeder told me not to use a CHE. So this was the only thing I could think of.

That's interesting, did they say why not to use a heat emitter?
Full disclaimer; I love heat mats and heat tape, I use tons of heat tape but I use it for snakes. I hate it for tortoises because tortoises naturally go underground to escape high temps and low humidity. So a tortoise gets too warm above ground and goes under ground where there's a heat mat and its even warmer. Or in the reverse case I don't think a tortoise, if it got cold enough would burrow to seek get warm.
Heat mats also do nothing to warm the ambient air temperature so the air can be cool and the ground can be hot which is not beneficial either. You would get much farther in my opinion using your thermostat on a ceramic heat emitter.
 
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Melissa N

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That's interesting, did they say why not to use a heat emitter?
Full disclaimer; I love heat mats and heat tape, I use tons of heat tape but I use it for snakes. I hate it for tortoises because tortoises naturally go underground to escape high temps and low humidity. So a tortoise gets too warm above ground and goes under ground where there's a heat mat and its even warmer. Or in the reverse case I don't think a tortoise, if it got cold enough would burrow to seek get warm.
Heat mats also do nothing to warm the ambient air temperature so the air can be cool and the ground can be hot which is not beneficial either. You would get much farther in my opinion using your thermostat on a ceramic heat emitter.
Ya. I'm going to get one tomorrow.
 

Melissa N

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Indian stars are very prone to RI's especially with high humidity and not being kept warm enough. I would be very cautious with the other two possibly having it. Unless of course you can prove he did choke.

The bubbles are leading me to think it's RI though.
It's funny you mention high humidity. About 10 days ago I was on here trying to figure out how to get the humidity up because it was too dry.
 

Melissa N

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Well, I'm feeling pretty sad. My daughter's been upset and crying (Luna was hers). So I guess I'll head to bed. Thanks everyone. Tomorrow I'll get a heat bulb and I'll get the other 2 in to see the vet this week. Anyone know of an inexpensive one in Pittsburgh? The one here charges $75 a piece for a consult. Oh, well.
 

Turtleneck123

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Well, I'm feeling pretty sad. My daughter's been upset and crying (Luna was hers). So I guess I'll head to bed. Thanks everyone. Tomorrow I'll get a heat bulb and I'll get the other 2 in to see the vet this week. Anyone know of an inexpensive one in Pittsburgh. The one here charges $75 a piece for a consult. Oh, well.
I hope everything goes well. Best of luck :)
 

G-stars

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It's funny you mention high humidity. About 10 days ago I was on here trying to figure out how to get the humidity up because it was too dry.

Was the tortoise doing this before you raised the humidity? The bubbles or the yawning?

For future reference high humidity is fine for star tortoises but they need warmer temps with it. I don't let my Indians go under 80F for hatchlings. Even my adults don't like the cooler temps.
 

Tom

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I'm also curious about the source of these babies. How were they started? Dry routine or humid routine with daily soaks?

The symptoms point to RI in my opinion, but there could be other contributing factors at work too.
 

Pearly

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I just saw this thread! I am soooo so sorry! For you and for your daughter! Trying to console a child while you yourself are having hard time is very difficult. I just had to do that few months ago after losing one of our older cats who had been with us since way before the children, so the kids never knew "life without Shari". I am so sad for you!
 

BrianWI

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She has made that sound a couple of times in the past while eating. One time she was drinking and the water came right back out of her mouth. Do you think maybe she had some kind of a problem with her throat, like a cyst? And maybe it just got worse over time?
I would say something like this or the tort ate something non-food. They do that on occasion. Again RI is unlikely as this seemed very rapid and with an RI they would decline much more slowly. I have treated RI's quite a bit in rescued torts and turtles and even those that were too far gone to save lingered much longer.
 

Pearly

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I just saw this thread! I am soooo so sorry! For you and for your daughter! Trying to console a child while you yourself are having hard time is very difficult. I just had to do that few months ago after losing one of our older cats who had been with us since way before the children, so the kids never knew "life without Shari". I am so sad for you! I don't know about stars, my babies are the Redfooted. I've read in one of the threads here that it's best to keep babies of ALL SPECIES warm and never let the temps drop below 80F. I have kept mine at 80 on darker side and 85-86. I keep mine in 40 gal tank with covered top so humidity in there easily stays above 80%. Last winter I was watching temps very closely especially at night and there were few times when it dropped to 79, I would touch the substrate a it would feel pretty cold so I do what it takes to keep things at 80
 

Melissa N

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I'm also curious about the source of these babies. How were they started? Dry routine or humid routine with daily soaks?

The symptoms point to RI in my opinion, but there could be other contributing factors at work too.

They were started with a humid routine.
 

Pearly

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Toward the end you can hear the sound she is making.
Melissa, I was just able to watch that video. This looks like the baby is struggling to clear her mouth or throat. Disclaimer here: I've only cared for tortoises since end of June'15 and learned most that I know from the people on this forum. I have never seen a baby tort with URI other then on some posts here in health section which I still try to study diligently to be aware of potential problems I may encounter with my babies. I just want to know the first aid in baby torts other than general common sense stuff. Anyway, just wanted to tell you that I've seen my baby RF do something just like that one time after getting a freeze dried river shrimp in her mouth which was either too big or went in sideways and got lodged, not sure, but she did this same thing with her arms, that looked like she was trying to wipe her face off. She was also doing this same heaving-like motion when the bottom of her chin would bulge... That thing with mine happened few months ago when I was still chopping up their food very very finely just to help my little Tucker get enough calories (he's my "special needs grand-tort"). That scared me so much that to this day I'm in no hurry to get their diet to regular consistency. Again, i don't know what URI would look like but this with your baby start to me looks like she's trying to clear her throat. Towards the end of the second video it even looks like agonal (right before dying) gasping breaths. Again, I am so so very sorry for the pain you have experienced
 

Melissa N

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Update:

Looks like it was RI. I saw a bubble come out of Luna's sister, Nova's nose this morning. Also noticed the clicking sound when she eats. Luckily I was able to get her and Stella (the other sister) into the vet today. I was given an antibiotic (Enrofloxacin) oral drops. It was super hard to get their first doses in. I also think it was really stressful for them. Hopefully they'll start getting better soon. I think I'll up their nighttime temps to 90 for a few days.

I have a closed chamber enclosure now for them but I'm still having trouble keeping the humidity over 60%.

Anyone have any advice for administering antibiotics to baby tortoises?
 

Pearly

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Darn! See if you can get that humidity up to at least 80%. The higher the better. You want to create something of a sauna for them. It's like with human babies when they get croup, you get into warm shower with them to keep the airway open. I had spent couple nights that way with my twins back to back when they were babies. After that got a nebulizer machine which i only had to use one more time later. Those things in the middle of a night at times make a difference in those tiny airways between life and death. Get more temp/hygrometers for different spots of enclosure at substrate level, or use temp gun to spot check temps all over including their hide. I always worried about getting my babies "cooked" so was probably going overboard with 4 meters positioned in 4 different spots directly on the surface of the substrate bcs that's where those babies are. If you struggle with humidity, see if you can use your regular room humidifier and funnel the steam into the enclosure. I gave in very early on and got the Reptifogger to solve my humidity issues. I was so worried about one of my babies who was always looking/acting... just sickly, I didn't want to take any chances. People here don't use anything for humidity in closed chambers and seem to keep theirs up, I just could never get it to over 80% until the fogger thing. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for your 2 babies. Hang in there and keep us posted
 
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