Do torts travel well?

Kylee L.

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I don't mean any disrespect, really, but I just drove 800 miles with a 40+lb male Sulcata. He did not poop or pee, he was in a hard rubber black tote with a fastened lid. He didn't make any sound of scratches, or banging. When I unloaded him at Y's he immediately found the first patch of grass and started grazing. I don't think he acted stressed or unhappy. I also brought my 12 yr old adopted cat who had never been on a car trip. He was fine. Great at Y's house and again on the road home. I brought back 2 box turtles, first thing I did when I got them home was set them up. They didn't act strange or nervous. I cannot be the only crazy person in the world who does not hesitate to travel with animals. I always travel with animals.
So just to please me, how do they not travel well, look? Am I so empty headed and unconscious that I don't realize how damaging I am to sensitive animals? I really want to know how you are seeing stressed out animals. I brought back 3 box turtles and one tortoise from Texas 5-6 years ago. A 2 day trip and not one of those animals acted stressed out. My cat and I did get stopped at POE and held for 8 hours while the Texas County Mounties tried to accuse me of tortoise smuggling. Ha, my cat and I were evidently trying to smuggle a common Sulcata tortoise and more common box turtles according to the police. Jerks
no disrespect taken, I had a tort die on me very shortly after I got him so I over think everything.
Tortoises are very much creatures of routine and habit. They have very good memories in the sense that they live by programming into their memory their territority - over here is water in the rainy season. Over there that plant grows in spring. Here the grass is good. This is the place best to rest in midday. Over there is the best night hide. If you study them when you pretty much leave them to do their own thing (Don't handle and desensitize them a lot) you will start to see there is even a consistent pattern to their daily routine. My galapagos, for example has now gotten used to his newer outdoor enclosure. He pretty much comes out of the night house every day at the same time. Turns to his right and follows the same path around to the same section to graze for a while. Then goes under his favorite daytime hide in the pumpkin patch, and rests for an hour or so. Then comes out and grazes for another few hours working his way the same path to another section of the enclosure. He always checks out the stand of testudo mix in another section of the enclosure before going back into the night house for the evening.

IF they are moved, they don't know where all "their stuff" is. They live and their whole world is their relationship to "their stuff" If they cannot find it, they are stressed. Long term, low-grade stress is probably the number one killer of tortoises in captivity after dehydration.
that'd understandable
 

Aunt Caffy

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My tort only travels to the vet. She would poop pretty much every time in her first travel bag when we travelled. She doesn’t poop near as much since I made her the new much larger bag.
 

Maggie3fan

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Tortoises are very much creatures of routine and habit. They have very good memories in the sense that they live by programming into their memory their territority - over here is water in the rainy season. Over there that plant grows in spring. Here the grass is good. This is the place best to rest in midday. Over there is the best night hide. If you study them when you pretty much leave them to do their own thing (Don't handle and desensitize them a lot) you will start to see there is even a consistent pattern to their daily routine. My galapagos, for example has now gotten used to his newer outdoor enclosure. He pretty much comes out of the night house every day at the same time. Turns to his right and follows the same path around to the same section to graze for a while. Then goes under his favorite daytime hide in the pumpkin patch, and rests for an hour or so. Then comes out and grazes for another few hours working his way the same path to another section of the enclosure. He always checks out the stand of testudo mix in another section of the enclosure before going back into the night house for the evening.

IF they are moved, they don't know where all "their stuff" is. They live and their whole world is their relationship to "their stuff" If they cannot find it, they are stressed. Long term, low-grade stress is probably the number one killer of tortoises in captivity after dehydration.
I agree with most of what you say, it's not like I'm new to the world of reptile keeping. And look who is my mentor. But neither you nor Tom is giving me what I am looking for. What makes you think they are stressed out? What symptoms do you see, that I evidently don't see, that makes you say the animal looks or acts stressed?
 

Maggie3fan

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Please understand that I am not trying to start an argument. I want to know, what does "stressed out" look like? Are you using your experience to make a decision that this tortoise must be stressed out, or do you see physical symptoms?
 

crimson_lotus

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Please understand that I am not trying to start an argument. I want to know, what does "stressed out" look like? Are you using your experience to make a decision that this tortoise must be stressed out, or do you see physical symptoms?

To me, the indication of stress would be the constant, back to back pooping. She literally empties her bowels on the way to the vet until she cannot poop anymore.

Granted once the poop has been emptied she no longer shows this sign of stress! But it is very unusual for my tort to poop that consistently so it must be the change in environment.

Also keep in mind I have little experience, only my one tortoise and rides to the vet once a year.
 

Markw84

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Please understand that I am not trying to start an argument. I want to know, what does "stressed out" look like? Are you using your experience to make a decision that this tortoise must be stressed out, or do you see physical symptoms?
Stressed out by low grade stress normally first shows as a slow down or no growth for a few weeks or month. I did a lot of reptile shows last year. As most who read my posts probably has surmised, I am rather anal about keeping records. I track and graph the weights of all my Burmese Stars I hatch. When I take some to the shows, it involves a few nights of living out of a travel bin and in a strange enclosure at the shows, even though I try to set it up as I do their enclosure at home. I see a change in growth rate every time. When I do 2-3 shows over a 2 month period, I see very slow growth from the ones I take and do not sell at the show. At the show, they all act fine and are quite active. (Actually I believe looking for familiar places). They eat what is put in front of them. But they ALL slow down to at least 1/2 their normal growth that month.

What many interpret as actively exploring a new enclosure, I see as stressed trying to find its territory. Most people simply respond to why a new tortoise is very active at first, then hides a lot and isn't growing the first month or two as "needing time to adjust". But that is low grade stress showing its effects. This also lowers the immune system and can leave the tortoise more susceptible to disease.

Moving a tortoise is very stressful to a tortoise.
 

Tom

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To augment Mark's points, which I 100% agree with, another indicator is that a consistent breeding group can be moved, and they will stop breeding, sometimes for years, until they get settled in again.

@maggie3fan in the travel bin, you'll see excessive voiding of the bowels and bladder, pacing and wall climbing and a general sense of restlessness. Some torts will go so far as to flip themselves. Often upon arrival, people will often see the energetic "exploring the new territory", which I agree with Mark is actually a near panicked search for "home". This stage is followed by lethargy and lack of appetite (low grade stress) because they are not home where they are comfortable, and cannot find home.

You can see it here on the forum when a member simply re-arranges the cage or changes the substrate. Tortoise starts running around, sometimes flipping itself, and this is often followed by lethargy and lack of appetite for a while until they "settle in".

Frequent advice for a constipated tortoise is to take it for a car ride. Why? Because the stress and frantic pacing will usually make them unload their bowels. You've argued in the past that frequent and long soaks make them poop too much and not digest their food properly. My observations of health, appetite and growth rate say otherwise. Likewise, I share Mark's observations that growth rate slows tremendously for a good while after a car ride. In my business, I never use my breeding females for jobs. I only use surplus males that are not part of any breeding project, because transporting them to a film set, working with them for a day, and then bringing them home that evening upsets their routine. The surplus males get over it and are fine within a day or two, but I wouldn't want to risk a female getting egg bound or going off food.
 

Tom

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about 5-6 days. are they ok without food for that long?
Best to have someone stop by to check on them daily and drop in some food.

Soak them for an hour or more that day before, or the day you are leaving if there is time before you depart. Remove the water bowl. Don't want them to poop in the water bowl and have it sit there for days. Soak again the day you return, or the morning after, and replace the water dish.

You can also drop in a spineless opuntia pad or two. Those will last a week or more without going bad. Even if its not your tortoises current favorite food, they can nibble on it if they get hungry and its very high in water content.
 

turtlesteve

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I agree with most of what you say, it's not like I'm new to the world of reptile keeping. And look who is my mentor. But neither you nor Tom is giving me what I am looking for. What makes you think they are stressed out? What symptoms do you see, that I evidently don't see, that makes you say the animal looks or acts stressed?

I have moved several times with tortoises and changed enclosures more times than I can remember. I almost always feel that the animals undergo some stress in unfamiliar environments. What I see is similar to what Tom and Mark indicated - a decrease in appetite, hiding / sulking, hyperactivity (pacing, climbing walls). It is very specific to individual animals and some seem to be more bothered than others.

For years I even disliked the idea of moving tortoises back and forth between enclosures (e.g. indoor / outdoor). However, I eventually realized that this is not stressful; the tortoises easily learn and remember both enclosures.
 

Chubbs the tegu

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I dont think one trip is going to be overwhelmingly stressful for a tortoise. They get shipped and brought to shows without dropping dead. Yeah i wouldnt suggest doing it every week, but i think its contradictory for you all to pelt a person for being afraid to keep their tort alone for a week when you all do the same thing. Just my opinion
 

Chubbs the tegu

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If you dont have someone that can care for the tortoise of course... some ppl dont feel comfortable leaving for a week if they have nobody to depend on... what happens if it ended up flipping and couldnt right itself? Theres worse things that could happen than a lil stress
 

Tom

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For years I even disliked the idea of moving tortoises back and forth between enclosures (e.g. indoor / outdoor). However, I eventually realized that this is not stressful; the tortoises easily learn and remember both enclosures.
This has been my strategy for raising small ones for decades. Indoors at night and in bad weather, and outdoors periodically when the weather is nice. My experience is the same as yours. They learn both and are comfortable in either.
 

Maggie3fan

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To augment Mark's points, which I 100% agree with, another indicator is that a consistent breeding group can be moved, and they will stop breeding, sometimes for years, until they get settled in again.

@maggie3fan in the travel bin, you'll see excessive voiding of the bowels and bladder, pacing and wall climbing and a general sense of restlessness. Some torts will go so far as to flip themselves. Often upon arrival, people will often see the energetic "exploring the new territory", which I agree with Mark is actually a near panicked search for "home". This stage is followed by lethargy and lack of appetite (low grade stress) because they are not home where they are comfortable, and cannot find home.

You can see it here on the forum when a member simply re-arranges the cage or changes the substrate. Tortoise starts running around, sometimes flipping itself, and this is often followed by lethargy and lack of appetite for a while until they "settle in".

Frequent advice for a constipated tortoise is to take it for a car ride. Why? Because the stress and frantic pacing will usually make them unload their bowels. You've argued in the past that frequent and long soaks make them poop too much and not digest their food properly. My observations of health, appetite and growth rate say otherwise. Likewise, I share Mark's observations that growth rate slows tremendously for a good while after a car ride. In my business, I never use my breeding females for jobs. I only use surplus males that are not part of any breeding project, because transporting them to a film set, working with them for a day, and then bringing them home that evening upsets their routine. The surplus males get over it and are fine within a day or two, but I wouldn't want to risk a female getting egg bound or going off food.
OK Tom, thanks. That's just what I wanted, sorta lol
 

Maggie3fan

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Stressed out by low grade stress normally first shows as a slow down or no growth for a few weeks or month. I did a lot of reptile shows last year. As most who read my posts probably has surmised, I am rather anal about keeping records. I track and graph the weights of all my Burmese Stars I hatch. When I take some to the shows, it involves a few nights of living out of a travel bin and in a strange enclosure at the shows, even though I try to set it up as I do their enclosure at home. I see a change in growth rate every time. When I do 2-3 shows over a 2 month period, I see very slow growth from the ones I take and do not sell at the show. At the show, they all act fine and are quite active. (Actually I believe looking for familiar places). They eat what is put in front of them. But they ALL slow down to at least 1/2 their normal growth that month.

What many interpret as actively exploring a new enclosure, I see as stressed trying to find its territory. Most people simply respond to why a new tortoise is very active at first, then hides a lot and isn't growing the first month or two as "needing time to adjust". But that is low grade stress showing its effects. This also lowers the immune system and can leave the tortoise more susceptible to disease.

Moving a tortoise is very stressful to a tortoise.
Thanks Mark. I appreciate your opinion
 

pcrealty

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I would like to go see family over the holidays and may not have anyone to tort sit. They live 6 hours away.. I have a 1 year old Russian and was curious to know if anyone has traveled with their tortoise and what they did with then when they got to the destination.
We did a 5 hours drive round trip and every two weeks a 2 hours drive. We place the tortoise in some warm water to excrete (soak for 20 minutes+). Soak the tortoise in warm water, and if water gets cool, we do a water change. Soaking stimulates excretion. Then we have a small tortoise transport container and line it with paper towel. As the tortoise gets uncomfortable, it will excrete in the container several times during the trip. We have a ready bag with gloves, wipes and new paper towels to re-line the transport container. Also, keep some plastic disposal bags for trash.

Importantly, we have a travel plastic bin containing all the temporary tortoise equipment: portable lamps for basking. A small bag of substrate, tortoise food and water dishes. If it is colder during the winter times, we tape down some portable hand warmers on top of the lid for the comfort during the transport. Use a small tub (low level) 3 feet x 18 inches for its temporary home. Also, electric extension cords or power strips are helpful. It may take a few days before the tortoise returns to a regular routine. See below attachment of our temporary tortoise home.

If we travel by airplane, we leave the tortoise and complete equipment to our daughters to care for.

Have a good trip!
 

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GMDVM

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Tortoises do have adrenal glands and their cortisol levels will increase measurably when transported or moved to another environment Studies show that it can take four weeks for a return to more normal levels. Cortisol is released by the adrenals to help the body deal with stress. Of course there may be a great deal of individual variation even within close family members so I would say to observe your own pet closely and if a move is judged necessary then plan carefully with timing , manner and enclosure to reduce disruption to routine On the other hand I personally would not feel right leaving my tort without a trusted “sitter” for extended periods.
 

pcrealty

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Tortoises do have adrenal glands and their cortisol levels will increase measurably when transported or moved to another environment Studies show that it can take four weeks for a return to more normal levels. Cortisol is released by the adrenals to help the body deal with stress. Of course there may be a great deal of individual variation even within close family members so I would say to observe your own pet closely and if a move is judged necessary then plan carefully with timing , manner and enclosure to reduce disruption to routine On the other hand I personally would not feel right leaving my tort without a trusted “sitter” for extended periods.
Agreed, it takes about 3-4 days for our tort to resume normal.
 
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