do I need a covered enclosure in my backyard?

teresaf

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2015
Messages
2,023
Location (City and/or State)
Port Charlotte, Florida
I have a privacy fence thats pictured below surrounding my entire backyard. it would be hard for a raccoon to climb but I guess they could borrow under. I have dogs Loose in the backyard 6 times a day and night minimum that scare most critters away. I want to build an enclosure among some palm trees out there with 2' walls(made of logs like this person did) for my 8-9"(4lb)Burmese Black Mountain tortoises. Do I NEED to cover it? I will be planting other things in there for them to hide under but....I want it to look natural and be safe.

Screenshot_2017-02-15-01-35-45.png Screenshot_2017-02-15-02-01-50.png
 

ZEROPILOT

REDFOOT WRANGLER
Moderator
Tortoise Club
5 Year Member
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jul 16, 2014
Messages
28,938
Location (City and/or State)
South Eastern Florida (U.S.A.)/Rock Hill S.C.
I also live in Florida so I have similar critters.
I ended up covering mine with a black, plastic 1" mesh just for one reason. To keep out the neighborhood cats.
They liked to use the enclosure for a litterbox.
Otherwise, I have never needed it to be covered.
My privacy fence is a wooden "shadowbox" type and if you look on an angle, you can see through it, so my tortoises are not visible from any other yard to also keep interested children, etc from being tempted into taking them.
 

Yvonne G

Old Timer
TFO Admin
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 23, 2008
Messages
93,389
Location (City and/or State)
Clovis, CA
None of my outdoor yards are covered. I've seen raccoon bodies flattened in the street that runs by my house and I know there are opossum too. Last year I lost about 5 box turtles to a raccoon that I eventually trapped and relocated. My yards are all too big to cover, but if push comes to shove, I'll run a hot wire around the fences.

And don't kid yourself. Raccoons can climb your 6' privacy fence.
 

teresaf

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2015
Messages
2,023
Location (City and/or State)
Port Charlotte, Florida
You think they could climb that? It's very slippery! My dogs have gotten all kinds of lizards out there because the poor little things can't climb the darn thing. They just bounce right off...
 

mark1

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2015
Messages
1,932
Location (City and/or State)
ohio
depending on what kind of dogs , but dogs can be more dangerous to an 8-9 inch turtle than a raccoon ......
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tom

teresaf

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2015
Messages
2,023
Location (City and/or State)
Port Charlotte, Florida
Yes I know. So far they have been raised in the house with the dogs. Not on the floor but in tanks. They've seen them. they know they belong. we put the Torts in the front porch screened area where we walk through with the dogs quite often and they ignore them. they Eat their food but they ignore the torts. I believe making the walls of the enclosure tall enough where they can't see them will be good enough to discourage any inquisitiveness. actually it's just one dog that goes after the lizards. it's like a game to her. they move so fast she can't help herself from chasing. that's the cattle dog Border Collie Aussie breeds in her. slow-moving tortoises don't do anything for her.
 

jaizei

Unknown Member
Moderator
10 Year Member!
Joined
Feb 5, 2011
Messages
9,054
Location (City and/or State)
Earth
You think they could climb that? It's very slippery! My dogs have gotten all kinds of lizards out there because the poor little things can't climb the darn thing. They just bounce right off...

If it's just like the picture, yes I can see the possibility.
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
63,264
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
Oh yes. The raccoons will find a way in and out. They are very smart, agile and very determined.

Still, I'd be much more worried about the dogs. Do NOT make the mistake of thinking your dogs "know they belong…" and are used to the tortoises, so they wouldn't do anything. You've been here long enough. You know how that always ends up.

As far as covered or not: Having it closed in removes a lot of risk. Leaving it uncovered involves more risk. Every area and every yard is different, so only you can assess your level of risk there and your own comfort level. Like Yvonne, none of my large juvenile enclosure are covered, but I also don't let dogs in there and the tortoises are either removed or locked up at night in their heated boxes. Because of all the dogs, other animals and activity, the local wildlife has not been a predation problem for me. The gophers and ground squirrels that tear up my plants and roots are a problem, but predators keep their distance.
 

teresaf

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2015
Messages
2,023
Location (City and/or State)
Port Charlotte, Florida
Oh yes. The raccoons will find a way in and out. They are very smart, agile and very determined.

Still, I'd be much more worried about the dogs. Do NOT make the mistake of thinking your dogs "know they belong…" and are used to the tortoises, so they wouldn't do anything. You've been here long enough. You know how that always ends up.

As far as covered or not: Having it closed in removes a lot of risk. Leaving it uncovered involves more risk. Every area and every yard is different, so only you can assess your level of risk there and your own comfort level. Like Yvonne, none of my large juvenile enclosure are covered, but I also don't let dogs in there and the tortoises are either removed or locked up at night in their heated boxes. Because of all the dogs, other animals and activity, the local wildlife has not been a predation problem for me. The gophers and ground squirrels that tear up my plants and roots are a problem, but predators keep their distance.
I realize dogs can be a problem. I don't think the answer to the problem is keeping my dog separate at all times. if people socialize their dogs to their torts and THEN protect the torts from the dogs then when they're away if they do get together when you're not around there's less chance of a bad out come. the wall would be at least two foot tall. I don't have my Mastiffs anymore. my bulldogs would have to struggle to get Over it. I'm not too worried about them. My border collie/aussie/cattle dog I watch even though she shows no interest in them or any other slow moving animal.
 

teresaf

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2015
Messages
2,023
Location (City and/or State)
Port Charlotte, Florida
So at what size does a tortoise need to be before it is acceptable to leave tortoises outside at night in an uncovered enclosure with 2ft walls inside a yard with a six foot vinal privacy fence? Or will they always need locked up after dark?
 

Yvonne G

Old Timer
TFO Admin
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 23, 2008
Messages
93,389
Location (City and/or State)
Clovis, CA
I have two over 200lb aldabran tortoises and I lock them in their shed every night. I don't think they ever outgrow the need of being safely locked away at night.
 

ZEROPILOT

REDFOOT WRANGLER
Moderator
Tortoise Club
5 Year Member
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jul 16, 2014
Messages
28,938
Location (City and/or State)
South Eastern Florida (U.S.A.)/Rock Hill S.C.
You think they could climb that? It's very slippery! My dogs have gotten all kinds of lizards out there because the poor little things can't climb the darn thing. They just bounce right off...
Check out some of our Raccoon threads.
I've had them and had to deal with them. (And kill them unfortunately)
I even had to replace most of my roof because of them years ago. They ripped plywood and shingles off and got in my house. It's a hurricane rated roof!!
They can climb and rip and open and outsmart anyone who is careless.
 

ZEROPILOT

REDFOOT WRANGLER
Moderator
Tortoise Club
5 Year Member
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jul 16, 2014
Messages
28,938
Location (City and/or State)
South Eastern Florida (U.S.A.)/Rock Hill S.C.
And yes.
I'm pretty sure that even my sweet and cute 2.5 pound puppy would make some sort of tortoise sushi if I ever gave her access to my tortoises.
It seems to be something deep in the DNA
 

saginawhxc

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2016
Messages
897
Location (City and/or State)
Saginaw, Michigan, USA
I hate racoons. I hate them with a passion. They are capable of almost ANYTHING.

Can they climb that fence? Probably. I would not be surprised at all if they did. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if they built little jet packs and flew over. Raccoons are wickedly smart and resourceful.

I understand what you are saying about the dogs and socializing. I somewhat, but not totally agree.

I have two dogs. A Doberman and a Pit/Shepard mix. They are around my tortoises on a regular basis, but I would NEVER leave them alone with them. Not even for a minute.

I think socializing them only goes so far. Yeah my dogs know they "belong", and probably won't harm my tortoises intentionally, but eventually will instinct and desire win out over training? I have zero desire to find out.
 

Yvonne G

Old Timer
TFO Admin
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 23, 2008
Messages
93,389
Location (City and/or State)
Clovis, CA
I also have a dog, and I love her dearly. She is my faithful companion and goes with me everywhere (on the property, as she's afraid to get in my truck). If I go outside, she goes with me. I never, ever let her outside without me. If she has to go outside to do her business, I go with her. Do I trust her to not eat or chew a turtle/tortoise? Yes, of course. But instinct is instinct and turtles and tortoises are just little chewwies to a dog.
 

saginawhxc

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2016
Messages
897
Location (City and/or State)
Saginaw, Michigan, USA
I also have a dog, and I love her dearly. She is my faithful companion and goes with me everywhere (on the property, as she's afraid to get in my truck). If I go outside, she goes with me. I never, ever let her outside without me. If she has to go outside to do her business, I go with her. Do I trust her to not eat or chew a turtle/tortoise? Yes, of course. But instinct is instinct and turtles and tortoises are just little chewwies to a dog.
If your Dobe is anything like mine it is afraid of the tortoises anyways.

I see yours is also afraid of car rides.
 

teresaf

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2015
Messages
2,023
Location (City and/or State)
Port Charlotte, Florida
I hate racoons. I hate them with a passion. They are capable of almost ANYTHING.

Can they climb that fence? Probably. I would not be surprised at all if they did. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if they built little jet packs and flew over. Raccoons are wickedly smart and resourceful.

I understand what you are saying about the dogs and socializing. I somewhat, but not totally agree.

I have two dogs. A Doberman and a Pit/Shepard mix. They are around my tortoises on a regular basis, but I would NEVER leave them alone with them. Not even for a minute.

I think socializing them only goes so far. Yeah my dogs know they "belong", and probably won't harm my tortoises intentionally, but eventually will instinct and desire win out over training? I have zero desire to find out.
You agree with me all the way. You just think i meant something I didn't. ; ) I would never leave them alone with my tortoises. Ever. I just meant that if it ever happened by accident there was less chance of anything actually happening if they were socialized to the tortoises and knew they belonged. I have a teenager and a two-year-old in the home. I'm not naive enough to think that accidents won't happen.
 

teresaf

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2015
Messages
2,023
Location (City and/or State)
Port Charlotte, Florida
[QUOTE="Yvonne G, post: 1453271, member: 3o have a dog, and I love her dearly. She is my faithful companion and goes with me everywhere (on the property, as she's afraid to get in my truck). If I go outside, she goes with me. I never, ever let her outside without me. If she has to go outside to do her business, I go with her. Do I trust her to not eat or chew a turtle/tortoise? Yes, of course. But instinct is instinct and turtles and tortoises are just little chewwies to a dog.[/QUOTE]
EXACTLY! if she got outside without you do you think she would tear up a tortoise? probably not. Because they belong and they're not shiney new toys. That's all I meant about socializing them to the tortoise.

You lock up EVERY tortoise EVERY night?
 

ZEROPILOT

REDFOOT WRANGLER
Moderator
Tortoise Club
5 Year Member
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jul 16, 2014
Messages
28,938
Location (City and/or State)
South Eastern Florida (U.S.A.)/Rock Hill S.C.
Is it the shell?
The smell?
A tortoise looks so much like other things that dogs chew on and we encourage it.
Toys, rawhide chews, etc.
It's not that dogs are being mean when they chew a tortoise. I'm not even sure that they are aware that is is alive. It just seems like something fun to chew on.
 

New Posts

Top