Daughter brought home a leopard and a sulcata hatchling last night

JulieS

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Hello all,

My teenage daughter went to a reptile store late yesterday (they'd posted a 9-inch red leg female on their available website the day before that she'd wanted, but it was sold by the time she got there), and she ended up bringing home two hatchlings instead (a leopard and a sulcata).

I helped her set them up in their temporary housing (about 2/3 of a 125-gallon aquarium I had sitting on some 2x4s on the floor in the dining room) based off of information I found on the internet (found this forum while doing those searches). And we're putting some finishing touches on it today (adding backgrounds to the glass so they don't start bumping into it, haven't so far).

She put a stick-on heating pad under the glass at one end of their cypress mulch area and then hung one of those two-bulb pendants about 9" over it (one heat bulb, one UVB bulb). Their dinner last night was dandelion leaves, and this morning it was mulberry leaves (both out of our yard), and they have a separate low dish for water. Their hut is one of those carved-out tree arches.

But I still have some questions. I read that hatchlings need lots of moisture but how much is too much? If we leave the tank uncovered, the gauge reads about 78% humidity. When we covered it last night when the lights were turned off (heating pad was left on underneath), the humidity has risen to close to 99% by this morning. Is that too much? Do we still mist them twice a day with a spray bottle? One video we watched also said to soak sphagnum moss and then add it to the hut. Good idea?

For trips outside into the sun and lawn, do we only do that between 80-90 degrees? Is there a way to tell if they're starting to overheat or dehydrate? The leopard seems to be very active, but the sulcata seems to only want to sleep. Caitlin saw it eat well in the store yesterday, but ever since it took a drink last night before bed, no one's seen it eat or drink after that. (It has crawled across the food though, so I guess it knows where it is.) Could it just be tired from an hour's drive home yesterday and learning a new pen? Or is this a bad sign?

Thanks in advance (hope I figured out how to attach the photo correctly),

Julie
 

wellington

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Hello and Welcome. The two can not be housed together for very long at all. The Sulcata most likely will bully the leopard and will out grow the leopard in no time. Please read Toms great threads below in my post for proper raisng, housing, temps and humidity.
 

Yvonne G

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Hi Julie, and welcome to the Forum!

If you're reaching 90% humidity, that's a good thing. Baby tortoises need a lot of warm humidity in order to grow smooth shells.

Keeping the two species in the same enclosure, however, is NOT a good thing. Never mix species. Since the leopard and sulcata both come from the same continent, mixing them is not as critical as say mixing a Russian and a leopard, but still should not be done. I think once you've got the sulcata set up in his own territory, you may start to see more action out of him.

Please read the care sheets for both species that are pinned at the tops of the leopard and sulcata sections.
 

Lyn W

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Hi and welcome - there is a lot to learn but this is the best advice on tort keeping you will find for up to date info

Have you read the care sheets for leopards and sulcatas under species specific yet? That will tell you all about temps humidity substrate diet etc. Also do searches to see if the answers to your questions pop up/
If the humidity is too high and the temps too cold your torts will get respiratory infections which are dangerous for them (as are coiled bulbs so avoid those)

They may take some time to adjust to their new home, but you should not mx species and as wellington says the biggest will very subtly bully and harass the smallest and you may think they are playing or cuddling but it will make the one on the receiving end ill. It may be advisable to take one back or separate them - tortoises are solitary animals and quite happy on their own.

if you put them outside they must have shelter/plants to get out of the sun and access to water at all times - a shallow terracotta plant saucer sunk to ground level will be OK for them to get in and out of without risk of drowning.
 

JulieS

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Thank you, I will check out those threads as I read/viewed so many different internet sources yesterday that the information started being contradictory.

And yes, one thing we have here in southern KS from April - October is humidity, lots of humidity. So it's good to know that won't be an issue.

We'll start planning adjoining outdoor enclosures rather than a shared paddock (just have to figure out how to exclude dogs, raccoons, raptors, etc... from a larger area).
 

Levi the Leopard

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You can keep dogs out of the pens a few ways...

Use taller fencing. 4ft, maybe with a 45° angle along the top. Unless you'd feel safer with a standard 6ft fence.

You could fully enclosure the area and make access doors for you.

Or do what I do (I have 1 dog and 1 leopard). My tortoise has free reign of the backyard and the dog doesn't. The dog's potty breaks are supervised and so is any play time out there. Sure, Muttley sees the tort when we are all out there. He might walk by him or lay on the grass with the tort eating near by. But I'm there and could stop anything should anything ever start to happen. The dog lives in the house with the family and is left in the house when we leave. With no unsupervised access to the tort, it's safe.

You can keep raccoons and other night time predators from being a threat by having a locking, night time tortoise box/house. But you won't need those houses until they are older and larger. I copied Tom's design. Many of us have. It's fully insulated, heated on thermostat and IMO a must for any sulcata or leopard keeper.

Welcome to TFO.
If you get confused by the conflicting info all you have to do is look at the adult examples of what each different type of care produces.
Dry, rabbit pellets, no water dish, lettuce fed babies either die or grow into stunted, disformed adults.
Warmth, moisture, natural substrate, water access and/or soaks, good balanced diets babies grow quickly, smoothly and turn into robust, healthy adults. You'll see many examples of that type of care here ;)
 

Jodie

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Welcome to the forum. Glad you are here. There is a ton of outdated bad info out there. Neither leopards or Sulcatas are desert tortoises as has been believed. They hatch during the rainy season and live under bushes and in grassy areas where it is hot and humid.
Glad to hear you will be separating them.
 

Tidgy's Dad

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Hello, Julie, and a very warm welcome to Tortoise Forum to you and your beautiful new little 'uns.
All the information you need is here.
Read, learn, contribute, ask questions and have fun.
 

JulieS

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Well, after reading the suggested threads, it appears we have the dreaded spiral UVB bulb in the dual fixture, so I'm guessing we just shouldn't turn that one on (the one for heat has a separate "on" switch)? They went outside for two hours this afternoon once it suddenly dawned on me that I could use the portable grazing cage my husband had made me for chicks/ducklings to keep the tortoises rounded up while I got started working on the flower bed we're making out front (it was in the 80s today). So from what I read, if they're going outside every day for a couple of hours or more, then we can skip the UVB till this fall when they have to stay inside?Grazing Cage.jpg
 

Tidgy's Dad

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Yep, if they're getting a couple of hours of lovely sunshine every day, you won't need the UVB yet.
 

Yvonne G

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Excellent idea! Be sure to give them a bit of shade over the top of it.
 

J.T.

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God the sulcata is sooo cute! I wish I had the space to build another enclosure... Or an entire tortoise farm.
Welcome from another newbie by the way! ;)
 

Tom

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Hello and welcome. You need a lot of help there, so I'll just start at the beginning and run through it all:

1. Where are you? Different advice for South FL vs. Phoenix, AZ.
2. I would not use a heating pad. Even more dangerous for babies. Use a CHE over head and set it on a thermostat to maintain an ambient no lower than 80 day and night. Then use a timer to have your basking bulb on for about 12 hours a day.
3. Species should not be mixed.
4. Tortoises should not be kept in pairs. These guys each need their own enclosures.
5. It is highly unlikely that your humidity is that high with an open top. Are you using the dial type stick-on hygrometer? Those are notoriously inaccurate and unreliable. Get a digital one from a hardware store.
6. Are you soaking daily?
7. That pen can work, but be aware that dogs can go right through chicken wire when they spot a tasty moving chew toy inside. Your dogs are probably the number one threat to your tortoises safety. Just be aware and be cautious. Too many people, and their tortoises, have had to learn this the hard way.
And Yvonne already mentioned, they need shade. They are also very exposed in that cage they need some cover to hide in and some shade so they don't cook. Your sulcata turned into the energizer bunny because he was scared, exposed and trying desperately to find cover. That was tortoise panic, not fun. Some potted plants or wooden planks on bricks will go a along way in making them feel safer.
8. It will be at least a couple of years before they are ready to live outside full time, and possibly more. I would concentrate on making the indoor enclosures as good as they can be. Brief outdoor excursions are great, but outside all day every day is not good for babies. You are correct that a couple hours a week will make indoor UV unnecessary.

These will help:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-raise-a-healthy-sulcata-or-leopard-version-2-0.79895/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/for-those-who-have-a-young-sulcata.76744/
 

johnsonnboswell

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If you want them active and eating and healthy, you'll need a good UVB bulb for the indoor season.
 
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