Dark, soft spot on plastron? Section of shell depressed.

[SteveSweeney]

Hello all,
New to the forum so I'll give some background. We have a 2 year old Sulcata named Tuck. We got him (though I'm suspecting he's a she) when he was about 3 inches long and he's been growing well and overall seems pretty healthy. Tuck's being kept in a glass tank turned on it's side with a section set up as a hide and he is able to go in and out. Most days he goes from his enclosure straight outside since the door is usually open and grazes on the grass and weeds in the yard. We're in California on the central coast where it's usually fairly warm, though it can be quite cool at night. The enclosure has a heat mat underneath the glass for warmth (warm but not hot to the touch). In addition to the grass and weeds he eats when outside we give him dandelions, kale and prickly pear cactus pads. We also give him a soak in warm water every couple of days.

Now, to the reasons for this post:
1. Recently noticed a soft and dark spot on the plastron that just doesn't look right. See pictures below and let me know what you think.



2. His shell has been really well shaped so far with no pyramiding but recently noticed one section on the right rear where it's gone from convex to concave shape. Like it's sunken in a bit. Not sure if it's visible in the photo. The shell is hard. We've recently started adding some calcium supplement to his food and are looking into mineral supplements as well. This doesn't seem normal. We want to make sure we're giving him everything he needs so welcome any input from the forum.


Thanks in advance for any feedback.

Steve

 

[KarenSoCal]

Hello, and welcome to the forum!

That first pic looks like something scraped or cut him. But those 2 rolls of ? on either side of the injury are odd. I believe this sore area is exactly at the spot where his umbilical scar was. Until you found this, was this area normal looking? Well healed? Is there any place in his enclosure that he walks over that could be cutting him? The area lower, just above his tail, is starting to do the same thing.

The second pic, taken from straight above, does not afford me the proper angle to see the concavity you mention. Maybe take some pix from his upper right side, more profile, to highlight the area.

I have no idea what's going on here. We'll ask for help from members who are familiar with something like this.

@zovick
@GMDVM
@Yvonne G

 

[Tim Carlisle]

Oh wow. Not certain what's going on there. Almost looks (to me) like it crawled up on something hot and melted the plastron.

 

[zovick]

Hello all,
New to the forum so I'll give some background. We have a 2 year old Sulcata named Tuck. We got him (though I'm suspecting he's a she) when he was about 3 inches long and he's been growing well and overall seems pretty healthy. Tuck's being kept in a glass tank turned on it's side with a section set up as a hide and he is able to go in and out. Most days he goes from his enclosure straight outside since the door is usually open and grazes on the grass and weeds in the yard. We're in California on the central coast where it's usually fairly warm, though it can be quite cool at night. The enclosure has a heat mat underneath the glass for warmth (warm but not hot to the touch). In addition to the grass and weeds he eats when outside we give him dandelions, kale and prickly pear cactus pads. We also give him a soak in warm water every couple of days.

Now, to the reasons for this post:
1. Recently noticed a soft and dark spot on the plastron that just doesn't look right. See pictures below and let me know what you think.
View attachment 312444


2. His shell has been really well shaped so far with no pyramiding but recently noticed one section on the right rear where it's gone from convex to concave shape. Like it's sunken in a bit. Not sure if it's visible in the photo. The shell is hard. We've recently started adding some calcium supplement to his food and are looking into mineral supplements as well. This doesn't seem normal. We want to make sure we're giving him everything he needs so welcome any input from the forum.
View attachment 312445

Thanks in advance for any feedback.

Steve

The tortoise has some healthy looking new growth along the seams of the plastron. The areas with the dark material are located right in the new growth which is a highly vascular area. It seems possible to me that the tortoise may have scraped those areas on something rough or sharp and caused some bleeding. The dark areas look like dried blood to me.

The fact that the center of the plastron feels soft is also a result of the new growth which is taking place, IMHO. The areas of newest growth will feel softer than the rest of the shell until they become fully calcified.

The two concave spots near the rear of the carapace are not too unusual. Some tortoises do seem to get those for reasons I cannot explain. I saw it in some Radiated Tortoises over the years. In that species, the spots generally filled in and became more flat or convex again as the tortoise grew into maturity.

You might want to look into dusting the tortoise's food with Herptivite Vitamins and Ultrafine Rep-Cal (with D3) several times a week or more to help it calcify its shell as it grows. I sprinkled both of those on all of my tortoises' foods every day for many, many years. Good growth was achieved and the animals were always in excellent health.

 

[SteveSweeney]

Hi all and thanks for the feedback.

Will definitely add some Herptivite Vitamins and Ultrafine Rep-Cal to his food.

This is something that happened recently and previously it looked like the rest of the plastron. There isn't really anything he could scrape on the enclosure. However, in reading the responses I was reminded of an incident that may have caused this. We changed the heat pad underneath the enclosure a while back and it was accidentally set too high and became quite hot to the touch so it may have burned him. It was quickly changed so it's only warm to the touch but the damage may have been done already. At this point I just want to make sure it's healing so will just continue to monitor it.

I will try to take and post some better pictures to show the area on the right rear of the shell that has gotten concave. He wasn't in the mood to sit still yesterday. It's only one area on the right side that's concave. The left is still convex shaped.

So what are your thoughts ...male or female? It's certainly not easy to tell but based on what I've read about sexing a tortoise it looks female.

Cheers,
Steve

 

[Markw84]

I agree with @zovick in that what we are seeing on the plastron is a scrape that bled and is now healing. The keratin on either side of an injury like that will often "pile up" a bit and create limps on either side as it grows.

The softness I would be concerned that more calcium/D3 is needed. Sounds like she gets plenty of sunshine so it probably more calcium needed. She is at a stage where there is a lot of rapid growth for a tortoise in that 12"-16" range and that's a lot of new bone growth and calcium needed. If the seams are soft, it would not be just new bone growth needing clacification as the new bone growth does not happen at the scute seams where the new kearin growth is. At her age and size bone growth is no longer a process of cartilage calcification but more now a process of bone plate enlargement. There is still some fontanelles filling in at this age/size around the costal/marginal seams between the modified rib bones. This also would point to more calcium needed. The concafvity over the rear legs would also tend to point to more calcium as well. This is a common place for the carapace to dip in a bit with fast growth and minimal calcium levels as there is direct tension from beneath where the hip girdle is attached to the spine at that point of the shell. And this is also where one of those rear fontanelles will be filling in still - so softer and more pliable.

And... yes she is a SHE.

 

[SteveSweeney]

I agree with @zovick in that what we are seeing on the plastron is a scrape that bled and is now healing. The keratin on either side of an injury like that will often "pile up" a bit and create limps on either side as it grows.

The softness I would be concerned that more calcium/D3 is needed. Sounds like she gets plenty of sunshine so it probably more calcium needed. She is at a stage where there is a lot of rapid growth for a tortoise in that 12"-16" range and that's a lot of new bone growth and calcium needed. If the seams are soft, it would not be just new bone growth needing clacification as the new bone growth does not happen at the scute seams where the new kearin growth is. At her age and size bone growth is no longer a process of cartilage calcification but more now a process of bone plate enlargement. There is still some fontanelles filling in at this age/size around the costal/marginal seams between the modified rib bones. This also would point to more calcium needed. The concafvity over the rear legs would also tend to point to more calcium as well. This is a common place for the carapace to dip in a bit with fast growth and minimal calcium levels as there is direct tension from beneath where the hip girdle is attached to the spine at that point of the shell. And this is also where one of those rear fontanelles will be filling in still - so softer and more pliable.

And... yes she is a SHE.

Thanks for the feedback and gender confirmation. Definitely adding more calcium. She usually gets outside for an hour or two at least on most days so I think she's getting enough sunshine.

 

[KarenSoCal]

I would never disagree on a diagnosis with experts like zovick and Mark. However, considering there are 4 areas on the plastron with damage, I think your burning assessment certainly has merit here.

If she was burned, this is exactly why undertank heat pads are so adamantly advised against by many forum members. In an indoor enclosure, heat should only come from above.

 

[Mrs.Jennifer]

I would never disagree on a diagnosis with experts like zovick and Mark. However, considering there are 4 areas on the plastron with damage, I think your burning assessment certainly has merit here.

If she was burned, this is exactly why undertank heat pads are so adamantly advised against by many forum members. In an indoor enclosure, heat should only come from above.

This is why I love this forum. Multiple educated opinions that respectfully discuss issues is refreshing. Thanks for trying to resolve members concerns.