CTTC foothill chapter

[dmmj]

The foothill chapter will be meeting tonight (friday) at 7:30 at the arboretum in arcadia, we will be watching a video on desert tortoises and be discussing our upcoming turtle fair. I will be bringing brownies for the meeting, as always we will be having a 50/50 drawing, food, and fun, any quetions feel free to ask, and hope to see some fo you there.

 

[dmmj]

Correction I will be bringing brownies and watermelon

 

[Tortuga_terrestre]

Im going to try to make it tonight.

 

[Candy]

Well both Walter and I made it to the meeting and it was very informative. I didn't get to stay to the end to meet everyone, but I was able to get Fernando's permit so that made me happy. I also got to see them adopt out a Desert Tortoise and microchip him, that was interesting. Too bad Tyler wasn't there I heard some very interesting information on Sulcatas.

 

[Yvonne G]

Too bad Tyler wasn't there I heard some very interesting information on Sulcatas.

This makes me think the chapter must have talked about how many sulcatas they are trying to find homes for, no?

 

[Candy]

Too bad Tyler wasn't there I heard some very interesting information on Sulcatas.

This makes me thing the chapter must have talked about how many sulcatas they are trying to find homes for, no?

Yes Yvonne. How cheap they are now compared to years ago. They also were talking about how destructive they can be and please not to get pairs of them when getting them (female, male). They said if you want one please don't buy them that they can find you one with no problem. I just kept thinking about Tyler. I've got to also admit that it reminded me of Maggie and Bob when she was telling stories about what they can do to your backyard and to you if they run into you when they're bigger. One of the guys there told her that he had two Desert Tortoises and his backyard was pretty big so he was thinking of getting a Sulcata and wanted to know if she thought this would be a good thing. She said they need about 1 acre of land to keep them the right way. Since having Fernando and watching him roam the yard everyday would think that this is a fair statement for her to make.

 

[Tortuga_terrestre]

The meeting was very interesting. I didnt know how destructive adult sulcatas can be. The speaker said they're has been cases big sulcatas breaking sprinkler systems and even hit gas lines!! (when they burrow) BOOM. I am definitely going to the next meeting. It was a pleasure meeting David (DMMJ). They also talked over population of sulcatas...can they be neutred or spayed? I mean they are microchipped now...

 

[Candy]

Does anyone know why Walter is banned again? It happened once before and he told me it was a mistake.

 

[TylerStewart]

Yes Yvonne. How cheap they are now compared to years ago. They also were talking about how destructive they can be and please not to get pairs of them when getting them (female, male). They said if you want one please don't buy them that they can find you one with no problem. I just kept thinking about Tyler. I've got to also admit that it reminded me of Maggie and Bob when she was telling stories about what they can do to your backyard and to you if they run into you when they're bigger. One of the guys there told her that he had two Desert Tortoises and his backyard was pretty big so he was thinking of getting a Sulcata and wanted to know if she thought this would be a good thing. She said they need about 1 acre of land to keep them the right way. Since having Fernando and watching him roam the yard everyday would think that this is a fair statement for her to make.

Said it before, and I'll say it again - "send them on down." If openly offering to take them back in at any point in the future, I don't feel 2 seconds of guilt for producing them. How many times have I offered to take unwanted sulcatas? How many have shown up at my door (zero, in case it wasn't clear)? Just because someone doesn't have the skills needed to find homes for them doesn't mean there's an overpopulation. If being a non-profit organization prohibits them from easily finding homes, that's their own fault. In the best interests of the tortoises - send them on down.

Here's an idea (gasp): Take the whole herd (of probably 12 that they have) male sulcatas to a show. Any show. Pay a small entry fee $50-200 for a booth. Put a $150-200 each price on them. Sell out on Saturday. Buy yourself a new TV.

If a sulcata needs 1 acre of land to be housed correctly, your group of cherryheads needs at least a 1/2 acre pen. Make sure you get them that, and send pics when you can. What? You can't? But.... They need.... it..... I thought....

I would put the health and happiness of my tortoises up against any in the country, and they're not in anything near a 1 acre enclosure.

I thought you had given up this argument, Candy?

EDIT: Candy, do you have a crush on me? You sure do bring me back into these things a lot.... I thought Meg was the only one.

 

[Candy]

What Tyler? All I said is that it made me think about you when she was talking about not buying any Sulcata because they can find them if someone wanted one that's all. Of course you're going to have a different opinion I would expect nothing less after all you're a breeder....that's a whole different perspective on the matter. I would have loved for you to be there though and talked with her on your point of view. That would have been very interesting to hear her response to you. Since I don't run a rescue I can't tell you how it really is here in California, but I'm sure she and a couple of the women there could have. I'm just saying that I would have enjoyed listening in on that conversation a lot. I think what the lady was trying to convey to us last night is that if you are researching Sulcatas and what they need to be happy and healthy that you would want to provide them with nothing less then an acre of land to roam. That makes sense to me and probably a lot of others on here. Are you seriously saying that with all of the tortoises that you have you don't have over 1 acre of land? Tyler just to let you know how I am, I don't give up arguments that easily to anyone.

Edit: Have a crush on you Tyler? You actually sent a picture to your pregnant wife of a girl with her boobs hanging out holding your name tag. I don't go for guys like that.....Meg can have you.

 

[TylerStewart]

I think what the lady was trying to convey to us last night is that if you are researching Sulcatas and what they need to be happy and healthy that you would want to provide them with nothing less then an acre of land to roam. That makes sense to me and probably a lot of others on here. Are you seriously saying that with all of the tortoises that you have you don't have over 1 acre of land? Tyler just to let you know how I am, I don't give up arguments that easily to anyone.

Well, and from her point of view, as a rescue with the goal of instilling fear into everyone, it makes sense that she would say they should have an acre of land. A horse should have 5 or 10 acres of land, but few of them do. I doubt many people feel that they aren't giving their horse a happy life because they don't give it 5 acres of land. I can't even imagine a sulcata enclosure that was 1 acre. I can't imagine a sulcata enclosure that was 1/4 acre. Maybe one dropped into a 1 acre backyard, I mean, sure it's going to be happy, but there's thousands of big sulcatas in nowhere near an acre of space that are very well taken care of. I would guess that the huge majority of people with sulcatas in this forum don't have 1 acre enclosures. Most probably consider their tortoises very well taken care of, and most are probably right. Just because 1 person throws out a number like 1 acre doesn't mean it's a standard. It's her opinion, and most opinions are probably not the same as hers.

I don't know why it surprises people that a sulcata can break a sprinkler. I trip over sprinklers all the time and break them. I've had redfoots and leopards break sprinklers and just about every other species of tortoise do sprinkler damage at some point. Each of my dogs have done more sprinkler damage than my tortoises have, but that's part of keeping a pet. Dogs are more damaging, chew on things, cost more to maintain, smell a lot worse and are more work to keep than a tortoise, so in my opinion, keeping a big tortoise is a walk in the park compared to a medium or bigger breed dog.

The combined area of all my tortoise enclosures is less than an acre. Much less

 

[Tom]

There goes Tyler with another dose of reality. Sheesh, when will he ever stop?

I wonder what this speaker's opinion would be of me. I have three small adults crammed into a measly 6000 square feet. And I've committed the horrible act of allowing them to breed and produce beautiful offspring for me to enjoy.

Does anyone think my adults aren't properly cared for? Except for Maggie, who thinks I shouldn't own sulcatas, since its too dry here to grow enough graze for them year round. Ha ha.

I'm not siding with Tyler because I like him, its because what he is saying makes sense. I just recently tried to adopt a sulcata or two through a rescue and the process stopped when I had to sign a ridiculous contract promising all sorts of non-sense. If there are rescues that are overflowing somewhere, its because they make it impossible for a reasonable person to get one. I wish I could find a way to get to these owners BEFORE they give their torts to a rescue. There are lots of good homes out there for them.

 

[Candy]

Tom that's a dose of reality that I would pass on. We try to give the best care possible, but I agree sometimes we can't do that, but does that mean that we don't think about what is best for them before we rescue them? I've seen posts of your own that have questioned newbies about how much room they have for this animal so I know that you now they need quite a bit of space. I'm sorry but these guys are very big and I know that you have a lot of property at least more then most. Tyler is a breeds for money and not because he loves this animal so much and wants to carry on the species because there are enough already out there. So we don't need to argue about that one anymore. Most of the people on here know how he feels that doesn't mean that they support his point of view on the matter. I'm not sure why we even breed them since they are the cheapest out there now to buy so nobody's really making a big profit off of them. Maybe you two should come to a meeting and put your opinions in front of someone more experienced in handling these then me and we'll see how far you get with your arguments. I mean Yvonne is a rescue and has been doing it longer then you guys have been breeding but yet you totally disregard her opinion on the matter and might I add Maggie too. I know that we justify what we believe to be true, but sometimes you have to stand back and take a look at the other side of the story. I find it hard to believe that most people have enough room for these guys. Maggie has a hard time with Bob and yes the stories are funny and cute, but he has caused some major damage to her yard and even hurt her, are you denying what she has told you in the past? I'm not saying not to let them breed, but why not just leave nature do it's job? I have a very big backyard and I would think twice before getting one of these. The lady that was speaking also mentioned that you would probably have to separate you females from your males since the males don't leave them alone very much during mating season and can hurt them. That means you'd have to separate even more roaming space for your Sulcatas.

 

[dmmj]

Just FYI we are not microchipping sulc's unless the owner requests it, my chapter is microchipping all CDT that get adopted out.

 

[TylerStewart]

Tyler is a breeds for money and not because he loves this animal

That's a pretty bold statement to make - a statement that clearly comes from someone who has no clue what she's talking about (because she otherwise wouldn't have said it). I bet the most neglected tortoise I keep is housed more properly, fed a more varied diet, and cared for better on a daily basis than any tortoise you own. You don't know a thing about what we do here in Vegas or what my intentions are. I already know that arguing with you is a lost cause, but you really should watch what you say unless you know there is some truth behind it, and there obviously is not any. To say that I don't care about my tortoises besides money is just about the dumbest statement I've seen on TFO.

I mean Yvonne is a rescue and has been doing it longer then you guys have been breeding but yet you totally disregard her opinion on the matter

You're right, Yvonne is a rescue. Were you aware that Yvonne has no sulcatas in her rescue, and that I have 2 people in CA waiting on one (from Yvonne's rescue)? Last time I asked, she had none available.

Maggie has a hard time with Bob

So maybe Maggie shouldn't have Bob. There are certainly people that shouldn't have them just as much as there are people that shouldn't have a dog, a cat, or a horse. I don't know the story behind Bob, and it doesn't really matter to me, but the fact that she occasionally struggles with her tortoise doesn't mean anything. I occasionally struggle with my dogs. I occasionally struggle with my kids. Should I not be keeping them? You occasionally struggle with gnats in your tortoise enclosure. It's all part of keeping a pet.

By all means, if anyone is put off by the fact that I produce sulcatas - seriously, don't buy anything from me. I don't need a pat on the back from people like Candy who only point the finger at others she doesn't agree with when she is guilty of all the same things. Like I said before, if I should be providing my sulcatas a 1 acre enclosure, your cherries need at least half that. Do you or do you not have 1/2 acre space ready for them to move in to? If not, then quit whining to others about it.

I just recently tried to adopt a sulcata or two through a rescue and the process stopped when I had to sign a ridiculous contract promising all sorts of non-sense. If there are rescues that are overflowing somewhere, its because they make it impossible for a reasonable person to get one. I wish I could find a way to get to these owners BEFORE they give their torts to a rescue. There are lots of good homes out there for them.

Don't worry, Tom, SulcataRescue.com is on the way, and it won't be nearly as hard to adopt one from it
.... Well, assuming it ever has any available.

 

[Yvonne G]

Easy now, everyone...please be on your good behavior.

 

[TylerStewart]

Easy now, everyone...please be on your good behavior.

Don't worry, I always have a smile on my face. I think there should be warnings for false information being thrown out there against a person or business.

 

[chadk]

I don't breed torts. And I do rescue sulcatas (have 4 now). And I tend to agree with Tyler and Tom on this one. The 1 acre thing is a joke. There are way too many factors that go into it. Is it just for exercise? The abilitity to keep up with natural graze?

I know of large dogs raised just fine in small apartments. Yet some would say it can't or should not be done. Yet somehow the owners are able to figure out ways to meet the animals needs. There is no one size fits all approach.

My 1/4 acre I have just for my sulcatas offers plenty of room to roam, shade, plenty of sun, and more grass and weeds than they can handle (had to bring in the goats last month just to help keep it manageable).

My dogs are way more destructive, need way more hands on time, cost way more to maintain, are much more likely to accidently harm me or my kids (they are big playful dogs), etc. And to top it off, shelters are overflowing with dogs to the point that many dogs are put down each year. The sulcata 'problem' does not even scale to cats, dogs, rabbits, ferrets, etc etc etc... Of course there are going to be some abused and abandoned sulcatas (I see more russians and boxies though), and the big problem is really that there are so few people ready to take them in.

The few rescues that exist can only handle a handful at a time if that. But that is really because most folks are more educated about dogs than they are torts. A person can rescue or foster a dog in a heart beat. Yet the work required to get their home ready is often much more than it would be for a sulcata. They'd need a fenced in yard (6ft), plans for socializing, vet visits, shots, training time and money, food budget, and plans for keeping it occupied while the owner is at work, vacation plans, etc etc. A tort is really much simplier than that. The hard part for many of us is the heated tort shed. But that isn't really a big deal. Point being, the only reason there appears to be a tort issue, is that torts are just not common pets and people are not aware of the issue and not educated on how easily it would be to adopt one... That is, if there were really that many in your area that needed to be adopted...

 

[Yvonne G]

And...you usually have to have separate pens for each sulcata, while you can put dogs in the same area.

 

[Candy]

Tyler why don't you try putting the whole quote from me up and not just the part that you didn't like? Here it is.

Tyler is a breeder for money and not because he loves this animal so much and wants to carry on the species because there are enough already out there.

Again you take things out of context, but that doesn't surprise me at all. I did not say that you don't take care of your tortoises or that you don't care for them. It really wasn't meant to be an insult to you, sorry if you read it that way.

And if you haven't been keeping up with Maggie and Bob then you don't know anything about her experiences with a 80 lbs plus Sulcata who's not full grown yet. So therefore why would you comment on anything about them? It's obvious to me that you haven't read her threads about him. Too bad you might have learned something new.

I don't need a pat on the back from people like Candy who only point the finger at others she doesn't agree with when she is guilty of all the same things.

Now this is just a confusing sentence Tyler what is it that I'm guilty of? I don't sell Sulcatas. Oh and my property is 7400 square feet so yes I have plenty of area for my 7 inch Cherryhead, my 4 inch Cherryhead and my 3 inch Cherryhead.

Don't worry, Tom, SulcataRescue.com is on the way, and it won't be nearly as hard to adopt one from it Smile
.... Well, assuming it ever has any available

I am very glad to hear this as it will give Tom and you a different perspective on what rescues are all about. Well maybe it will to Tom since he's the one who's going to be running it.

I mean Yvonne is a rescue and has been doing it longer then you guys have been breeding but yet you totally disregard her opinion on the matter

You're right, Yvonne is a rescue. Were you aware that Yvonne has no sulcatas in her rescue, and that I have 2 people in CA waiting on one (from Yvonne's rescue)? Last time I asked, she had none available.

Here again you disregard what Yvonne does as a rescue. Like I said before. What a bold statement to make about Yvonne. How do you know what tortoises Yvonne takes in maybe she doesn't make public all the tortoises she takes in. I know that rescues don't want breeders to take Sulcatas so there for they're not going to be giving information out to the ones that they think are going to do this, have this ever crossed your mind?