Confusion with so many Vitamins and Supplements

gabby.santana

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I was told by other reptile owners that I need to look into vitamins and supplements...So I did and came across so much.

Currently I have Calcium powder with and without D3

then I found Minerall Indoor formula and outdoor formula
along with Vit-All that was also made by sticky tongue that contains all essential amino acids

Then I came across Nutrobal and and Rep Call Herptivite

Do I need all these? Which ones are the best ones

The Sticky tongue products have great reviews.
 

dmmj

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a varied diet you shouldn't need anything. The miner-all is for tortoises that are eating the substrate only. to be honest besides a cuttlefish you shouldn't need anything.
 

dmmj

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15 years of keeping Russians not any interest ever in cuttlefish. it just sits there month after month after month & year after year after year
 

wellington

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You can scrape the cuttle bone over the food if you have concerns cuz they are not using it. Just a pinch 1-2 times a week. However, if they are getting a good varied diet and UVB as stated above, they may not have a need for more calcium.
 

Tom

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Well both my box turtle and tortoise show no interest in their cuttlebone
This likely means that their calcium needs are being met by their diet.

Vitamin and calcium needs will vary with each individual tortoise, each species, age, environment and diet. These are just some of the reasons for the conflicting info. If you had a young sulcata on a growth spurt, I'd say use calcium three times a week. If you have an adult male russian living outdoors and eating a wide variety of broadleaf weeds, grape leaves, mulberry leaves, and occasional opuntia, I would say don't use any calcium supplement at all. Egg laying females? More calcium. Growing babies indoors getting mostly grocery store greens over winter? More calcium. Adults living outside eating weeds? Less calcium supplementation would be needed.

The idea is to feed the right foods, and use the supplements sparingly to make up for any nutritional deficiencies that might be present. But don't over use the supplements because that can do more harm than good.

I would use the MinerAll once a week, a calcium supplement once a week, a vitamin supplement of your choice once a week, and leave cuttle bone out all the time. All you need of any of these is a tiny pinch mixed in with the food for the day.

Also, don't worry about D3 or not. There are very small amounts in those supplements. If they don't need it, it will do no harm. I have yet to see any evidence that tortoises can use dietary D3 anyway. Your tortoise should be either getting sunshine, or have adequate indoor UV, and therefore producing its own D3.
 

Kapidolo Farms

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This likely means that their calcium needs are being met by their diet.

Vitamin and calcium needs will vary with each individual tortoise, each species, age, environment and diet. These are just some of the reasons for the conflicting info. If you had a young sulcata on a growth spurt, I'd say use calcium three times a week. If you have an adult male russian living outdoors and eating a wide variety of broadleaf weeds, grape leaves, mulberry leaves, and occasional opuntia, I would say don't use any calcium supplement at all. Egg laying females? More calcium. Growing babies indoors getting mostly grocery store greens over winter? More calcium. Adults living outside eating weeds? Less calcium supplementation would be needed.

The idea is to feed the right foods, and use the supplements sparingly to make up for any nutritional deficiencies that might be present. But don't over use the supplements because that can do more harm than good.

I would use the MinerAll once a week, a calcium supplement once a week, a vitamin supplement of your choice once a week, and leave cuttle bone out all the time. All you need of any of these is a tiny pinch mixed in with the food for the day.

Also, don't worry about D3 or not. There are very small amounts in those supplements. If they don't need it, it will do no harm. I have yet to see any evidence that tortoises can use dietary D3 anyway. Your tortoise should be either getting sunshine, or have adequate indoor UV, and therefore producing its own D3.
Evidence of dietary D3 studies with blood values are in existence. I think I might have sent one to you in a flurry of Hermann's pdf files sometime in 2013/14? In the Douglas Mader giant book of reptile medicine there are referenced comments on the topic. I think I killed the quick reference brain cells on that with a beer. I'll try to remember to look. It was a good beer.
 

Tom

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Evidence of dietary D3 studies with blood values are in existence. I think I might have sent one to you in a flurry of Hermann's pdf files sometime in 2013/14? In the Douglas Mader giant book of reptile medicine there are referenced comments on the topic. I think I killed the quick reference brain cells on that with a beer. I'll try to remember to look. It was a good beer.
Thank you Will. So to be clear, did the study show that animals ingesting D3 orally demonstrated the presence of D3 in the blood stream with a total absence of UVB?

If yes, this is great news that I have not yet heard.
 

Kapidolo Farms

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I have to look at the resource to answer so pointed a question. I don't think any study has clarified a "total lack of UVB". However in Mader's book a recommended quantity of D3 is offered as a substitute for outdoor sun. I had kept and bred Russians for several years on only dietary D3, no sun, no UVB tubes or bulbs. Then it was based on the Quantum Diets of Susan Donahue. We bred pancakes at the Philly Zoo with only dietary D3. I just told you some reliable information based on several years of experience at my own hand, how does that work for you? I can't say that there was a Total Lack of UVB. Those pancakes were however in the basement of the lion house and there are light wells with heavy green glass windows. My Russians were inside a bottom floor flat with only north facing windows and reflected sun light coming in off the adjacent building.

I have always fully hated the review process so have published little. The pancake study though has blood values collected over several years while the Philly Zoo beta tested the quantum diets.

If you think about the cycling of sun & basking habits with peak sexual activity of tortoises you might agree that higher amounts of D3 act as a sex hormone. But that's a whole nother topic.

Anyhow, that's why I use Layena, birds have a somewhat similar D3 issue, and laying chickens are often deprived of sun so get their D3 via diet in those situations. As long a long fiber is in the diet the little dudes will move that bolus* of food as they need based on the nutrients available and required.

*Bolus, a 2015 voted most weird word for TFO, thank you again.
 

BrianWI

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"I have always fully hated the review process so have published little."

Nowadays, if you can't reference your statement on the Internet, you are immediately flamed. No matter if you have done it for forty years....

I have always operated as a private scientist, both with private collectors and universities. Much less stress. Publishing always seems to **** off someone.
 

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