concave plastron on Dalmatian Hermann's

[taurusgi]

Hello! My older tortoise Shiao-Heh is 1 yr and 8 months old, and she was about 3.5" and 176 grams when I measured her last month. My younger tortoise Panda George is 11 months old, and she was about 2.1" and 78 grams when I measured her last month.

I have a question about their plastron. It seems like Panda George's plastron is concave and the central line is raised like a ridge. I wouldn't even notice it till I noticed that Shiao-Heh's plastron is completely flat. After doing some research on the forum,
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread...manns-Normal?highlight=plastron#axzz1lujdWzm7
They were talking about it could be accelerated growth?
Does it mean PG is growing too fast? I'm a little bit confused because PG is definitely growing a lot slower than SH. SH was a lot bigger when she was at PG's age...

I decided to post some pictures of them. Could anybody help me take a look at it? I'm also worried about PG's beak too... Her beak seems to be a lot outward (not sure how to describe it) than SH's, even though she is younger and smaller!

If it's indeed accelerated growth, how do I prevent it from getting worse?
I feed them all different kind of greens. They get vit+D3 once a week, TNT with probiotics twice a week, Calcium powder twice a week, and Probiotics once a week. The basking area is about 90-100 degree, and there are also heat lamps too. I only soaked them once or twice a week before, but I'm now soaking them 4-5 times a week started 3 weeks ago.

Here are some pics of Panda George:

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Here are some pics of Shiao-Heh:



Right now they are living in the same tank but there is a wall in between them so they don't have access to each other. I used to have them together a several months but I realized PG was just too small so I separated them and they have been separated for 6 months now. Is there any chance that PG would catch up so that I can put them back together? It was so cute when they were living together!!

Thank you for reading my super long post...
Any suggestions and opinions are appreciated!!

kiki

 

[GBtortoises]

Unfortunately, I am having computer issues at the moment and cannot open your photos to enlarge them. So I am going only on your written description at the moment. Once I am able to view the photos I might have a different opinion than the following:
Yes, extended ridges along the seams of the plastron accompanied by what appears as concave scutes can be a sign of accelerated growth. Testudo species and the Hermann's subspecies in general seem to be very sensitive to accelerated growth. Generally, it's is a result of keeping a tortoise too hot overall (day/night) for extended periods, feeding a diet that is far more nutrional than their systems can handle and often keeping them too dry. These causes can also be coupled with lack proper activity. Many people equate more heat with more activity. Not necessarily so. Too much constant heat can actually make a tortoise, especially temperate climate species, less active.
Accelerated growth shows up in the plastron scute seams, the edges of of the carpace, head (around the eyes), beak and nails.
Someone else can probably make a better asessment based on your photos. As I said, my computer will not allow me to view them full size at the moment.

 

[taurusgi]

Hi Gary, Thank you for your reply! I think PG (the younger one who has concave plastron) is more active than SH now. SH normally goes to bed at around 3-4 pm (in winter) and PG goes to bed at around 5-6 pm. I guess I'm confused because PG grows very slow comparing to SH. How could PG be the one who has accelerated growth but not SH? If it's ok with you, can I email you the pictures so that you can take a look for me? I'm really worried about Panda George's ridge and beak...

Is there any suggestion for me to correct this situation? Right now on PG's side of the tank, she has 2 basking spots which are 90-100 degrees, 1 heated spot which is 90-95 degree, and the rest of the area is about 65-80. At night, it depends on which spots she sleeps at, it could be in between 65-80 degrees. I do notice that they both like to stay underneath the basking spots a lot... but I thought it's because now it's winter time? Not sure how I could "make them" exercise?

Do you think I give them too much supplements also? They get vit+D3 once a week, TNT with probiotics twice a week, Calcium powder twice a week, and Probiotics once a week.

thank you and any advice would be much appreciated!

 

[GBtortoises]

After seeing the photos that you emailed me I don't see any accelerated growth issues with your tortoises at all. In fact they look really great!

 

[taurusgi]

oh oh oh!! thank you thank you so much!! this totally made my day........!!

I guess I'll just have to keep watching out for Panda George's beak. Any suggestion on how to prevent them from growing too fast? I've seen some horrible pictures of some tortoises' beaks got trimmed by some bad vets and they have hard time recovering from it, so I would like to try to avoid the future need of trimming..

Thanks again. I think people like you are very cool - who are experienced and willing to share their experience with newbies like me. I wish I can be like you guys one day!!

 

[tortuga_please]

I could be wrong but a think a cuttle bone will help with their beak

 

[taurusgi]

oh yea thanks! I forgot about the cuttle bones!! I always give them the powder calcium because they were so little and I'm not sure if their mouths are big enough to take bites of the cuttle bone. Maybe it's time to try it out!

 

[GBtortoises]

Cuttlebone does probably help keep their beaks trimmed somewhat. With baby and small tortoises I break it up into very small pieces as well as offer calcium powder in a seperate, shallow container. Eventually, as they get bigger (older) they begin to take bites of the cuttlebone more and more often.

 

[taurusgi]

thanks! I'll keep sprinkling the calcium powder on their food just in case they didn't realize they can eat (bite) the cuttlebone...