Combined basking lamp - UVB, UVA visible light and heat

rocco123

New Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2016
Messages
3
Hi, After some thoughts on this please? We are considering changing our set up so we have a single combined bulb which emits UVB, visible UVA and heat rather than a separate UVB.
Are there any thoughts on this, positive and negative, and any recommendations for a decent but relatively inexpensive one?
This one as an example so you know what I mean

http://www.livefoods.co.uk/arcadia-....html?osCsid=f5362fa821b141b0469745564f619aa2

Thank you
 

JoesMum

Well-Known Member
10 Year Member!
Joined
Oct 26, 2011
Messages
21,606
Location (City and/or State)
Kent, South East England
Otherwise known as Mercury Vapour Bulbs, or MVB, they're used successfully by many people. They're not cheap though.

The alternative is a separate tube UVB (not the compact type that harms tort eyes) and ordinary Basking Bulb.

The only downside is that the UVB output of them dwindles after 6-9 months and the bulb needs replacing before it has actually blown. Tube UVB output lasts far longer.
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
63,269
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
What species and size? Where are you?

MVBs can work but you really need a UV meter to set their height and make sure they are still producing adequate UV for your tortoise. Some of them drop off after 3 months, even though the bulb lights up and appears to work.

Meter: https://www.solarmeter.com/model65.html
 

wellington

Well-Known Member
Moderator
10 Year Member!
Tortoise Club
Joined
Sep 6, 2011
Messages
49,660
Location (City and/or State)
Chicago, Illinois, USA
Otherwise known as Mercury Vapour Bulbs, or MVB, they're used successfully by many people. They're not cheap though.

The alternative is a separate tube UVB (not the compact type that harms tort eyes) and ordinary Basking Bulb.

The only downside is that the UVB output of them dwindles after 6-9 months and the bulb needs replacing before it has actually blown. Tube UVB output lasts far longer.
Actually the tube/flourescent only last 6 months and the MVB lasts longer, if you are going only by recommended lasting times and not using a UVB meter. The fluorescents for as long as I can remember and even with using them with fish aquariums, has always been recommended to change them after 6 months.
 

JoesMum

Well-Known Member
10 Year Member!
Joined
Oct 26, 2011
Messages
21,606
Location (City and/or State)
Kent, South East England
Actually the tube/flourescent only last 6 months and the MVB lasts longer, if you are going only by recommended lasting times and not using a UVB meter. The fluorescents for as long as I can remember and even with using them with fish aquariums, has always been recommended to change them after 6 months.
You'll need to argue that one with Tom. His experiments with meters have indicated that the tube fluorescents have lasted longer
 

Yvonne G

Old Timer
TFO Admin
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 23, 2008
Messages
93,390
Location (City and/or State)
Clovis, CA
I like using the Mercury Vapor Bulb. I use it for most indoor applications. But I do have a couple areas where I use the T-10 fluorescent tube.
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
63,269
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
Actually the tube/flourescent only last 6 months and the MVB lasts longer, if you are going only by recommended lasting times and not using a UVB meter. The fluorescents for as long as I can remember and even with using them with fish aquariums, has always been recommended to change them after 6 months.


Deadheadvet has been testing MVBs and says that the newer crop are only producing UV for about 3 months. Drops off to zero after that.

I have some Arcadia 12% HO bulbs that are still producing good UVB after 24 months of continuous use. My 10.0 bulbs were giving me a UV index reading of 1.1 when they were brand new. At 30 months they are still making 1.0-1.1 with the meter and bulb in the exact same places.

The manufacturers sure want you to buy a new bulb every 6 months, but do the math and you'll see its much cheaper to buy the meter, AND you'll KNOW that your bulbs are making the correct amount of UV and mounted at the correct height instead of guessing and hoping.

Actual readings from a UV meter carry more weight with me than words printed on a package by a manufacturer that wants to sell more product and cover themselves from liability.
 

wellington

Well-Known Member
Moderator
10 Year Member!
Tortoise Club
Joined
Sep 6, 2011
Messages
49,660
Location (City and/or State)
Chicago, Illinois, USA
Deadheadvet has been testing MVBs and says that the newer crop are only producing UV for about 3 months. Drops off to zero after that.

I have some Arcadia 12% HO bulbs that are still producing good UVB after 24 months of continuous use. My 10.0 bulbs were giving me a UV index reading of 1.1 when they were brand new. At 30 months they are still making 1.0-1.1 with the meter and bulb in the exact same places.

The manufacturers sure want you to buy a new bulb every 6 months, but do the math and you'll see its much cheaper to buy the meter, AND you'll KNOW that your bulbs are making the correct amount of UV and mounted at the correct height instead of guessing and hoping.

Actual readings from a UV meter carry more weight with me than words printed on a package by a manufacturer that wants to sell more product and cover themselves from liability.
I agree, but most don't have a meter or the money to spend on one. From my experience of seeing what an old flourescent bulb can do on an aquarium, I, without a meter, would still suggest changing them at 6 months. The Arcadia my be the one that can last longer and without a meter one wouldn't know. Arcadia are also harder to buy. I haven't found any place but online to buy them. At least half if not more wa t something they can run to a store to purchase, specially when in a pinch. Personally, I don't think it's only about the bulb. I think it's in the care of those bulbs too. The more they are handled, bumped, knock, exposed to humidity, etc, has an affect of their lasting time both in UVB output and lighting hours. My comment was geared for the average Joe's that doesn't have a meter and is going to run to their local store to get what they need. That's who I think most members are and more so newbies.
 

wellington

Well-Known Member
Moderator
10 Year Member!
Tortoise Club
Joined
Sep 6, 2011
Messages
49,660
Location (City and/or State)
Chicago, Illinois, USA
I also agree that
I like using the Mercury Vapor Bulb. I use it for most indoor applications. But I do have a couple areas where I use the T-10 fluorescent tube.
i like the MVB the best too. It gives me three things I need. Plus I have gone through many flourescent tube fixtures over my years of aquarium keeping. They aren't cheap and they don't last as long as they should for the cost of them. I have had both cheap and expensive. Neither last as long as the fixture for the MVB.
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
63,269
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
I agree, but most don't have a meter or the money to spend on one. From my experience of seeing what an old flourescent bulb can do on an aquarium, I, without a meter, would still suggest changing them at 6 months. The Arcadia my be the one that can last longer and without a meter one wouldn't know. Arcadia are also harder to buy. I haven't found any place but online to buy them. At least half if not more wa t something they can run to a store to purchase, specially when in a pinch. Personally, I don't think it's only about the bulb. I think it's in the care of those bulbs too. The more they are handled, bumped, knock, exposed to humidity, etc, has an affect of their lasting time both in UVB output and lighting hours. My comment was geared for the average Joe's that doesn't have a meter and is going to run to their local store to get what they need. That's who I think most members are and more so newbies.

My 10.0 bulbs are just regular ZooMed UV tubes. The kind anyone can buy in their local store. Still working at 30 months of continuous use in a closed humid chamber. I don't give them any special treatment.

And that is my point. You are recommending MVBs, and according to the man with the meter, the MVBs will not be meeting people's tortoise's needs through a single winter.

I think we should recommend what's best for the tortoises and let people decide if they can afford the meter or not. The meter pays for itself in savings on bulbs that don't need to be replaced. Over the life of an animal that is going to live for decades, it would be MUCH more expensive to NOT buy the meter, and without the meter, how can a person know if they are providing adequate UV? Replacing the bulb every 6 months is apparently no longer the way to go with MVBs… Replacing bulbs very six months that are still working perfectly, and will continue working perfectly for at least another 2 years, is just throwing money away, and its wasteful too.

My case: Having a UV meter will save thousands of dollars over the long haul. Having the meter allows the keeper to make sure their bulb is mounted at the correct height and that their tortoise is receiving enough UV, but not too much.

Your case: Its cheaper in the short term to just buy a new bulb every six months, and if mfg. instructions are followed, its probably good enough.

See what I mean? Did I sum it up correctly?
 

wellington

Well-Known Member
Moderator
10 Year Member!
Tortoise Club
Joined
Sep 6, 2011
Messages
49,660
Location (City and/or State)
Chicago, Illinois, USA
My 10.0 bulbs are just regular ZooMed UV tubes. The kind anyone can buy in their local store. Still working at 30 months of continuous use in a closed humid chamber. I don't give them any special treatment.

And that is my point. You are recommending MVBs, and according to the man with the meter, the MVBs will not be meeting people's tortoise's needs through a single winter.

I think we should recommend what's best for the tortoises and let people decide if they can afford the meter or not. The meter pays for itself in savings on bulbs that don't need to be replaced. Over the life of an animal that is going to live for decades, it would be MUCH more expensive to NOT buy the meter, and without the meter, how can a person know if they are providing adequate UV? Replacing the bulb every 6 months is apparently no longer the way to go with MVBs… Replacing bulbs very six months that are still working perfectly, and will continue working perfectly for at least another 2 years, is just throwing money away, and its wasteful too.

My case: Having a UV meter will save thousands of dollars over the long haul. Having the meter allows the keeper to make sure their bulb is mounted at the correct height and that their tortoise is receiving enough UV, but not too much.

Your case: Its cheaper in the short term to just buy a new bulb every six months, and if mfg. instructions are followed, its probably good enough.

See what I mean? Did I sum it up correctly?
You summed it up. However, I still disagree as far as most people will not buy a meter, no matter how you make it sound good. It's really not practical for the average Joe with a tortoise or two that have them as pets and not making any money off of them. So, we can give them all the info and they still can make up their minds. I still learn towards the short of it advising a bulb I trust and had no problems with. I have no experience or knowledge of how a meter even works. I have read a couple times about them, I think they are good to have. I don't think it's practical for most. With your and others advice for them and my and others advice as for which bulb we prefer, they will have the whole picture. I don't disagree about the meter, just don't think it's going to be purchased by most.
Since my joining, I only remember about 4-5 members having them and I believe a couple of those 4-5 have just gotten them within the last couple years and they can afford them more then the average Joe and they raise and sell tortoises.
 
Last edited:

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
63,269
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
You summed it up. However, I still disagree as far as most people will not buy a meter, no matter how you make it sound good. It's really not practical for the average Joe with a tortoise or two that have them as pets and not making any money off of them. So, we can give them all the info and they still can make up their minds. I still learn towards the short of it advising a bulb I trust and had no problems with. I have no experience or knowledge of how a meter even works. I have read a couple times about them, I think they are good to have. I don't think it's practical for most. With your and others advice for them and my and others advice as for which bulb we prefer, they will have the whole picture. I don't disagree about the meter, just not think it's what is going to be purchased by most.
Since my joining, I only remember about 4-5 members having them and I believe a couple of those 4-5 have just gotten them within the last couple years and they can afford them more then the average Joe and they raise and sell tortoises.

I understand where you are coming from.

I think maybe I should do a little video or pictorial of how easy to use it is and do some basic math for how much bulbs cost over just a couple of years. Maybe then it would make more sense to more people.
 

wellington

Well-Known Member
Moderator
10 Year Member!
Tortoise Club
Joined
Sep 6, 2011
Messages
49,660
Location (City and/or State)
Chicago, Illinois, USA
I think it's the upfront expense more then anything. 40-50 bucks is really hard for some, but much easier then 2-3 hundred. Most likely when they think of a meter, their bulb has probably burned out and now they need to shell out 40-50 bucks for a bulb, they don't want to also shell out 2-3 hundred. By the time they need another bulb, they have forgotten about the 40-50 bucks they shelled out a year or so ago.
For me. I only use my bulbs for about 4-5 months. Depending on our springs and falls. I also don't use them all day.
 

leigti

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2013
Messages
7,026
Location (City and/or State)
southeast Washington
Not everybody needs a meter. Those people lucky enough to live in claimants rather tortoises can get outside for a good part of the year don't have to worry about it. But for those of us up north I think it is a very good item to have. I am the average Joe, I don't raise or sell tortoises, I don't make a ton of money at my job, and I've had my meter for over three years. Maybe longer, I got the 6.5 uv index meter when it first came out.
I look at it as a long-term investment for a long term pet. I put it on my credit card and paid it off in installments. It is a chunk of money but I think most people, if they are honest with themselves and are willing to sacrifice a little here and there, can come up with that much eventually or make payments like I did.
I have a mercury vapor bulb that has never been used, bought it in the last year, and it 12 inches it reads 1.7 on my UV index meter. I have a feeling it will read pretty much zero very soon. And the readings are going to be smaller the farther away it is. I have heard that the quality has gone down, and that is really too bad because people are being ripped off and I don't even know it.
When I first got it I pointed it at every UVB light I had and I was shocked at the results. But also I think they're handy because not everybody has an enclosure with exact measurements that follow along with the guidelines written on the instructions for the bulbs. When I had to come up with new lighting for my new enclosure if I had not had the meter I pretty much guarantee I would not have the right kind of lighting that I needed.
I know this debate on whether they are truly needed will go on, it comes down to it individuals decision and their situation. But to just automatically write it off as some sort of luxury item I think is not fair.
 

leigti

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2013
Messages
7,026
Location (City and/or State)
southeast Washington
OK, I am officially ticked off. It's 50 bucks cheaper than what I got it for a few years ago. And it's on Amazon now. You lucky dog :)
ImageUploadedByTortoise Forum1478232146.936120.jpg
I'm pretty sure it's the same as what I bought from the solar meter company itself.
ImageUploadedByTortoise Forum1478232215.768504.jpg
 

leigti

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2013
Messages
7,026
Location (City and/or State)
southeast Washington
I'm not 100% sure that this is it but look into it. There is also the 6.2 version, it is a older model and many people use it. The 6.5 is just newer and measures things a little differently. I will go check out the solar meter site and see what it says.
 
Top