Colonies?

[Clawhammer]

I wanted to know something. Ultimatly I want Aldabras but I have no tort experience. I do however have a great deal of animal husbandry experience. So I bring an overall out look of humanly raised and bred animals to this young field of tort captive hearding. I see a few of you here on the forum are herdsman and many are pet owners. All of you have awesome ideas!!!! I'm personally looking more towards becoming a heardsman I will say. As stated in my Intro thread I've always wanted to do this just took me till 36yrs old to be established with time and opporitunity to set the ball in motion.

So, my currant questions are:

- Can Sulcata and Aldabra herds be mixed in the same pastures?
I guess, from what i've read so far (again no practical experience here) I worrie:
- Will the alfa males of each heard fight it out or would there be seperate heard orders in one colony style heard?

- Would cross breeding occur in a colony setting?

I ask because I can easily get a trio of Sulcatas that are very young. With this I can learn(starting now) the basics of habitat/needs and develop a sence of confidance in raising torts. But ultimatly I want Aldabras for my program. I know if I start raisin' the Sulcatas I wont part with 'em ever. So will they mix with my later plans. if not Id need to take into consideration how to effectivly manage two heards... LOL

 

[Baoh]

Given your greater/larger/longer-term plan, I would just get the Aldabras. You should not need a learning curve or practice herd with another species. The money you would spend on your trio could be put towards a baby Aldabra that fits with your ultimate goal.

To answer your three questions specifically-

They can be physically mixed. That may not be without its risks and/or concerns.

The males have the potential to fight and that can become life-threatening in some cases, so I would personally avoid it. Bullying can occur with either sex, but should be easier to manage with a larger and more elaborate habitat that has line-of-sight-barriers.

Hybridization may be possible. I have not yet tried that cross and have not yet seen it proven possible. However, that does not mean it is impossible.

I keep both, but not a great number of Aldabras (I have only retained one Aldabra from several that I went on to sell off). I mainly keep sulcatas that are homozygous or heterozygous for leucism.

 

[Clawhammer]

TY Great info!!!

 

[StudentoftheReptile]

Baoh summed it well. Not really a good idea, with those particular two species especially.

 

[Clawhammer]

http://www.tortoisesupply.com/babysulcatatrio

Check 'em out this is the trio im lookin at.
Just look at how awesome they are.
See my delema?

 

[Tortus]

Clawhammer, the problem I see with you and Aldabras is that you live in New York.

Aldabras get HUGE and will need to be outdoors year round unless you can build a huge facility outside to keep them warm during the winter, which would be very expensive to operate I imagine.

I'm sure it can be done. But it would be costly. Imagine heating not one, but 2 or more homes during those cold New York months.

 

[yagyujubei]

I think you need to set your sights a little lower. I'm just south of Cleveland and have leopards. I think the amount of money and time required to raise aldabras in our climate would just be too much.

 

[Tortus]

I think you need to set your sights a little lower. I'm just south of Cleveland and have leopards. I think the amount of money and time required to raise aldabras in our climate would just be too much.

I'm in the same type of area/climate as you (love the scrapple) and have one leopard, and I'm already worried about how to house it when it gets larger.

I love Aldabras, but having them in our climate is simply out of the question for the average person. I wouldn't even consider it. It may be ok for zoos and such, but for someone trying to make a profit from a "herd" I doubt it would be lucrative unless they have a heated warehouse to keep them in during the winter.

 

[Tom]

1. Can they be mixed? Yes anyone can go buy some and put the together in the same enclosure. They question ought to be "SHOULD they be mixed". My answer to that is no. Sulcatas are generally much more aggressive and bombastic than aldabras. Not a good idea. There is also the risk of disease and parasites from different parts of the world.

2. Generally with sulcatas you just want ONE adult male per pen. It can be done with more in a large pen and lots of individuals, but most people who attempt this find dead or injured tortoises in their pens. I know of one sulcata who killed off every other male, one at a time, over a period of a few months. A male sulcata would likely also go after a male Aldabra. Aldabras are pretty sensitive and mild mannered in comparison, so this would not be good. You ought to PM Aldabraman for specifics about having multiple male aldabras. I don't know of anyone who knows more about them than he.

3. I too have never seen sulcata/Aldabra hybrids and I sure hope I never do.

On another note, sulcatas produce a lot of offspring. A lot of people are already breeding them. I don't hold it against anyone who wants to do it, but I don't encourage it either. My point is that I'd rather see someone start out with a species that is not already being bred in such large numbers.

 

[Clawhammer]

1. Can they be mixed? Yes anyone can go buy some and put the together in the same enclosure. They question ought to be "SHOULD they be mixed". My answer to that is no. Sulcatas are generally much more aggressive and bombastic than aldabras. Not a good idea. There is also the risk of disease and parasites from different parts of the world.

2. Generally with sulcatas you just want ONE adult male per pen. It can be done with more in a large pen and lots of individuals, but most people who attempt this find dead or injured tortoises in their pens. I know of one sulcata who killed off every other male, one at a time, over a period of a few months. A male sulcata would likely also go after a male Aldabra. Aldabras are pretty sensitive and mild mannered in comparison, so this would not be good. You ought to PM Aldabraman for specifics about having multiple male aldabras. I don't know of anyone who knows more about them than he.

3. I too have never seen sulcata/Aldabra hybrids and I sure hope I never do.

On another note, sulcatas produce a lot of offspring. A lot of people are already breeding them. I don't hold it against anyone who wants to do it, but I don't encourage it either. My point is that I'd rather see someone start out with a species that is not already being bred in such large numbers.

Points well stated and taken... I love this site!

Also I see aldabraman is a wealth of knowledge and exp. I hope we can hit it off and wrk together for a long time...

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

If you get a chance to visit the Philly zoo you can see both the indoor and outdoor enclosure. Big enough for many individuals, they mix Aldabras with Galops, and the Galops have successfully bred there, so Aldabras may be able to as well. It's alot of work to keep those big guys year round under those conditions though, no less than a few hours everyday.

Will

 

[Baoh]

If you get a chance to visit the Philly zoo you can see both the indoor and outdoor enclosure. Big enough for many individuals, they mix Aldabras with Galops, and the Galops have successfully bred there, so Aldabras may be able to as well. It's alot of work to keep those big guys year round under those conditions though, no less than a few hours everyday.

Will

Indeed. I have been there quite a few times, although not recently.

I lightly studied ornithology in Russia with the head of the Philadelphia zoo's birds at the time.

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

[/quote]

Indeed. I have been there quite a few times, although not recently.

I lightly studied ornithology in Russia with the head of the Philadelphia zoo's birds at the time.
[/quote]


Ffinch? Baltz? or older than that?

 

[Yellow Turtle]

http://www.tortoisesupply.com/babysulcatatrio

Check 'em out this is the trio im lookin at.
Just look at how awesome they are.
See my delema?

And I see also 1 cute aldabra juvenile for sell there? Isn't it a further dilemma for you?

I wouldn't mix aldabra with sulcata though, and I agree with you just go straight for aldabra care if you have the $$$

 

[Laura]

even sulcatas where you live witll need to be outdoors and hard and $$ to house in the winter..
Long Island rescue get many in every year and ships the South to warmer climates.

 

[Baoh]

Indeed. I have been there quite a few times, although not recently.

I lightly studied ornithology in Russia with the head of the Philadelphia zoo's birds at the time.
[/quote]


Ffinch? Baltz? or older than that?
[/quote]

Herb was her last name phonetically, but I am not sure if that was the proper spelling.