Coil bulbs?

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Dane

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I have seen a lot of talk on here about coil bulbs being bad for torts' eyes, but nobody really states why this is so or shows any proof. I have used ReptiSun 10.0 compact bulbs on my bearded dragon and Diamondback Terrapins for about 2 years now, and have been using it for Dane for almost two months. I have never had a problem with the bulbs affecting their eyes in anyway. What gives?
Thanks!
 

TortieGal

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It's called photokeratoconjunctivitis. There is endless stories from people who have hurt there pets eye's with these bulbs, to me that's proof enough not to chance it.
 

N2TORTS

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Just some facts:
There seem to be two basic problems with all lamps manufactured cheaply in China.
Firstly, they appear to use a type of quartz glass that allows UVC and very short-wavelength UVB through it (unlike European glass, which I believe is very low-iron borosilicate) and also, when extruded into tubes, creates linear defects, like microscopic spurs inside the tube, which don't get covered evenly by the phosphor. There are therefore thin streaks of glass with no phosphor - you can just see them when you look at these tubes - and UVC can leak out.

Secondly some of the phosphor blends they use, produce un-naturally short-wavelength UVB. This too escapes through the quartz glass.
The result is a lamp which can cause eye problems
Hope this helps :cool:
 

Stephanie Logan

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Wow.

That is a great scientific explanation, and I actually understood most of what you said. I had to look up "borosilicate" and "phosphor", but after that the rest was easy! :D

Among other interesting tidbits about borosilicates, I found the following: "Specialty marijuana and tobacco pipes are made from borosilicate glass. The high heat resistance makes the pipes more durable." :p

Here are some excerpts from the Scientific Dictionary's resulting links on photokeratoconjunctivitis : "Photochemical effects are related to the duration and repetition of the exposure as well as related to the irradiance or radiant exposure." And: "Although the retina can repair minor damage, major injury to the macular region of the retina may result in temporary or permanent loss of visual acuity or blindness. Photochemical injury to the cornea by ultraviolet exposure may result in photokeratoconjunctivitis (often called welders flash or snow blindness). This painful condition may last for several days and is very debilitating. Long term UV exposure can cause cataract formation in the lens (see Appendix F - Bioeffects Chart). The duration of exposure also plays a role in eye injury."

It's nice to know that there is a scientific basis for claims that coil bulbs may be harmful to tortoise eyes, which reinforces TFO members' experience.
 

Dane

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Thanks so much for your help guys. I'm still not convinced that my ReptiSun 10.0 is harmful to my reptiles.

A quick google search for photokeratoconjunctivitis brings up a lot of studies on the effects that welding has on the eyes of humans- a welding torch is much different from a coil bulb. Secondly, I see no "thin streaks of glass with no phosphor" on my bulbs.
Another thing that was mentioned frequently was that UVC was the main culprit, with UVB playing a smaller role in the causation of photokeratoconjunctivitus. Because all reptiles need UVB to thrive, it is not really an issue, esspecially since ReptiSun 10.0 has a significantly low output of UVB when compared to the sun.
As for UVC, according to http://www.uvguide.co.uk/phototherapyphosphor-tests.htm
"Lamps which contain a high proportion of this "phototherapy" phosphor, and which have glass which does not block UVC, emit radiation as low as 270nm. However, the lower wavelengths are apparently attenuated by reducing the proportion of phosphor in the blend and by use of different glass. The Reptisun 10.0 lamp, for example, does not emit UVB below 280-285nm"

Sure, some lamps do emit some UVC (280-100nm), but reptisun does not emit any light below 280-285 nm, above the range for UVC.

My conclusion, Reptisun 10.0 compact bulb is perfectly fine for reptiles.
 
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Maggie Cummings

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I certainly can't give an explanation anywhere nearly as verbose as the previous poster. I just have some pictures of Tony. He's a yearling Sulcata that I got when he was 24 hours old. I kept him on a substrate that had pine in it. One morning when I woke up my tortoises one was dead and Tony had closed swollen eyes. So as he grew it was obvious that his eyes were somewhat fragile. But I didn't have any trouble with them. So then I got these new bulbs. I had a lot of tortoises at the time and was looking to save a few bucks. Anyhow, this is what Tony's eyes looked like after 48 hours under one of those bulbs...

28b5ye0.jpg


Some times when I check on him his eyes were hurting so bad he be drooling and blowing bubbles and his eyes looked horrible. So I'd soak him in warm water and put Terramycin eye ointment on his pupils. They were terribly painful for him at times. Sometimes his eyes hurt him so bad it would make me cry. It's just awful how seriously hurt those eyes would get. But the warm water and the ointment helped with the pain, I just wish I had been smart enough to know it was the bulbs causing the problems before it got so bad...
I wish I had better pictures to show you. I know I have them, but in my usual manner I have about 6000 pictures stored in my computer in no orderly fashion. So I've looked but I can't find them now of course...that's chopped zucchini on his mouth btw...

2hzsrwj.jpg


2guk4lz.jpg


This is what they looked like after I got rid of the bulbs. He was totally blind in his left eye and has diminished sight in his right.


ddngib.jpg
 

N2TORTS

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My conclusion, Reptisun 10.0 compact bulb is perfectly fine for reptiles.
[/quote]

Ba ~Hum~ BUG on Indoor lights! ... Nothing Beats PURE SUNSHINE!
:p

Stephanie Logan said:
Wow.

That is a great scientific explanation, and I actually understood most of what you said. I had to look up "borosilicate" and "phosphor", but after that the rest was easy! :D

Among other interesting tidbits about borosilicates, I found the following: "Specialty marijuana and tobacco pipes are made from borosilicate glass. The high heat resistance makes the pipes more durable." :p
..True True .....but the darn stems must be a different glass..there always breaking!;)
 

Dane

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JD- Indoor lights are the only option when in is -30 degrees outside.
 
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Maggie Cummings

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Dane said:
JD- Indoor lights are the only option when in is -30 degrees outside.

I also have weather problems Dane. We all know we would rather have our animals out in the sun, but sometimes that ain't possible...The bulbs I was using were...ZooMed Reptisun 10.0 Compact bulbs. Something else to consider is 2008. Since then supposedly the problem with the bulbs was fixed by late 2008. Those pictures of Tony were taken in May 2008
 

N2TORTS

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Dane said:
JD- Indoor lights are the only option when in is -30 degrees outside.

Yikes! ! ! -30 degrees ...to heck with herps I'd start with polar bears!:p
 

Annieski

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just out of curiosity, do you think the bulb with the combination of the pine substrate had any thing to do with the eye problem? I thought "pine" anything was a not good thing for sulcata.
 

kbaker

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I've been wondering if it is a certain brand of coil bulb or 'all' coil bulbs????????? Does anyone know??
 
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Maggie Cummings

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Yes, It was a combination of the two, the pine substrate and the bad bulb. It's my understanding it's a Reptisun 10. coil bulb, read up on the link, it explains it all...
 

Yvonne G

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Dane said:
I have seen a lot of talk on here about coil bulbs being bad for torts' eyes, but nobody really states why this is so or shows any proof.

This is so untrue! We have many, many posts giving links about the harm the bulbs have done...shown much proof!

If the bulb is working for you, that's fine. No one is saying you have to ditch the bulb. We just want you to be aware that if your tortoise shows signs of eye problems, it might be the bulb.
 
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