Coconut Oil

[Blkjkoknhrt]

Sooo, Glitch4200, it's been 6 months since the thread started. Any pics of the shell now? I agreed on a couple points in the thread, especially your comment about microclimates and improving daily maintenance. I like the idea of interaction with Munster (Hermann's) and everthing in moderation, right? Shells are sensitive things, and treating any part of any animal without thought is not good. Lemme know how your tortie likes his rubs up to now.

 

[Anyfoot]

I'm not into cosmetic stuff (mano mano hee hee hee). So can you tell me all the reasons humans get coconuted. I'm assuming its used as a sun block cream and doubles up as a moisturiser.

 

[glitch4200]

Sooo, Glitch4200, it's been 6 months since the thread started. Any pics of the shell now? I agreed on a couple points in the thread, especially your comment about microclimates and improving daily maintenance. I like the idea of interaction with Munster (Hermann's) and everthing in moderation, right? Shells are sensitive things, and treating any part of any animal without thought is not good. Lemme know how your tortie likes his rubs up to now.

Both of my russians get coconut slathers 2x-3x a week right now, as i am still trying to find the perfect application amounts per week while including drying out periods for keratin to get fresh air and moisture. I have kinda thrown out 4x a week. It seems to be a tad to much. As there is really no drying out period for fresh air and new moisture. So they 2x-3x a week seems ideal.. Here are some recent pics as of yesterday of there shells... a couple days ago actually marked my 5th month of consistent extra virgin coconut oil applications on my male Nibbles and almost 4 months for my female Napebbles.
Napebbles: has been having crazy exposive growth lately as she has went from 10.4 oz in December (lighter than father) to a whopping 15.1 oz today.... 4.3 oz gain.. and all she has been fed is weeds and flowers with a mix of store greens. All her growth has been coming in super flush and smooth, there is now space between all the scutes.. its lovely.

now compare to her day 1 photos at my house. Here is a Day 1, home from petco, before i started my care on her


Now here are some updated Nibbles pics taken within couple days of now..

 

[glitch4200]

I'm not into cosmetic stuff (mano mano hee hee hee). So can you tell me all the reasons humans get coconuted. I'm assuming its used as a sun block cream and doubles up as a moisturiser.

Actually from what i have read. They do not recommend using coconut oil as a sunscreen, as since the spf is 7.119 according to the journal of cosmetic science it does not provide much protection for long.. but is completely non toxic. I also read a statistic (do not know how accurate) that 65% of all hair care products and moisurizing creams have some for of coconut oil in them. Coconut oil is the new health fad. Cook with coconut oil, rub coconut oil on your skin for mositurizing, put coconut oil in your hair are some of the most common uses for it. A lot of this research is new actually, within the last 5 years to be exact.

Here is a link with all the new peer reviewed, sources cited, legit researach with EVCO. There is a lot more but some of the links i posted above came from this website.
http://coconutoil.com/peer_reviewed/

"coconut oil and skin"
"coconut oil and hair"
"coconut oil and its properites"

A good start to mounting the evidence of coconut oil being legit in different aspects in humans and there skin, hair and nails. If the biology of the keratin being reserached is almost identical to the keratin we as humans have minus maybe some amino acid strengths in the protein bonds of the kertain. How can i not use this to further promote and build on the case of extra virgin coconut oil for tortoises?

 

[Anyfoot]

Actually from what i have read. They do not recommend using coconut oil as a sunscreen, as since the spf is 7.119 according to the journal of cosmetic science it does not provide much protection for long.. but is completely non toxic. I also read a statistic (do not know how accurate) that 65% of all hair care products and moisurizing creams have some for of coconut oil in them. Coconut oil is the new health fad. Cook with coconut oil, rub coconut oil on your skin for mositurizing, put coconut oil in your hair are some of the most common uses for it. A lot of this research is new actually, within the last 5 years to be exact.

Here is a link with all the new peer reviewed, sources cited, legit researach with EVCO. There is a lot more but some of the links i posted above came from this website.
http://coconutoil.com/peer_reviewed/

"coconut oil and skin"
"coconut oil and hair"
"coconut oil and its properites"

A good start to mounting the evidence of coconut oil being legit in different aspects in humans and there skin, hair and nails. If the biology of the keratin being reserached is almost identical to the keratin we as humans have minus maybe some amino acid strengths in the protein bonds of the kertain. How can i not use this to further promote and build on the case of extra virgin coconut oil for tortoises?

Hi
I get what you are saying and trying to achieve. But it looks like you are moisturising your tort. Is it just that look that makes him look more attractive to the human eye. I personally wouldn't use any creams for me unless it was medical. My Missus (Dawn) puts some form of moisturiser on her skin every day. Does it do anything?, I'm not so sure. When we go on holiday I use suncream to cut down the UV rays so not to burn, And before we go out at night I use aftersun moisturiser so not to dry up. Eventually I acclimatise and can use a lower factor of suncream. My point is does your tort just look more glamorous because it has the moisturised look like humans do. Preventing IR is your ultimate goal. Do you think being coconuted (got to use that word when possible. lol) prevents IR? Don't you think by spreading the heat in a less severe manner would also prevent IR? Do you think having a very hot spot for basking encourages IR? I don't have the answers, just questions that mull around in my head.

 

[glitch4200]

Hi
I get what you are saying and trying to achieve. But it looks like you are moisturising your tort. Is it just that look that makes him look more attractive to the human eye. I personally wouldn't use any creams for me unless it was medical. My Missus (Dawn) puts some form of moisturiser on her skin every day. Does it do anything?, I'm not so sure. When we go on holiday I use suncream to cut down the UV rays so not to burn, And before we go out at night I use aftersun moisturiser so not to dry up. Eventually I acclimatise and can use a lower factor of suncream. My point is does your tort just look more glamorous because it has the moisturised look like humans do. Preventing IR is your ultimate goal. Do you think being coconuted (got to use that word when possible. lol) prevents IR? Don't you think by spreading the heat in a less severe manner would also prevent IR? Do you think having a very hot spot for basking encourages IR? I don't have the answers, just questions that mull around in my head.

In a way I am both moisturizing the tortoise and giving it a barrier against unnatural water absorption from "unfiltered" IR by allowing the oil to act as a way for the IR to be distributed more evenly across the shell thus allowing less localized heating thus lowering the amount water is taken from shell and skin from overheating tissues. By lowering the cycling of moisture loss over and over in the keratin as it continuously equalizs with the surround air and and internal hydration. (All theory though when applied my tortoises). It does more then become appealing to the eye when moisturized.. i feel it actually helps keep the Keratin stay in balance hydration wise and doesn't allow the unfiltered IR to damage the proteins in the keratin itself. Not really trying to prevent IR. I am trying to distribute it evenly creating less localized heating while keeping it hydrated.

 

[Anyfoot]

So would we not get the same outcome if the ambient temp was a gradient of heat that tapered from a hot spot area to a cool off area. For my juvenile redfoots I have them in a closed environment from 32c down to 27c with no hotspot. There carapace is never dry but not sodden either. Its a constant dull matt colour effect. Also when they come out from under there log in the morning you can see tiny water droplets on there carapace, So this means I've created condensation or dew under the log as they would have in the wild. As the day goes by they dry off but never completely dry. I bathe these regular too, but I'm convinced I don't need to because I THINK I've imitated there natural moist habitat in the wild and they don't dry out or become dehydrated. They have no hot spot to dry them out harshly. Not saying I'm right and I am learning, but I would have thought in the wild a tort wakes up in the morning with dew a moist from where its hidden for the night on the floor, then as the day passes it dries off gradually. You could argue that the sun acts as the hotspot but its an all around heat not a bulb blaring down on one particular spot of its shell from a short distance.

I am not dissing what you are doing, just throwing questions into the mix.

 

[Anyfoot]

My last message came up on my screen as if I was answering my own message. huh

 

[glitch4200]

So i finally found evidence that EVCO absorbs wavelengths of infrared! May i present to you
"Refractive Index and Fourier Transform Infrared Spectra of Virgin Coconut Oil and Virgin Olive Oil"
http://thescipub.com/html/10.3844/ajassp.2009.328.331

^-- Click full pdf {right hand side}

This shows proof that coconut oil absorbs wavelengths of IR. Which is beneficial to this whole idea and essential to proving it helps alleviate "unfiltered" IR by the oil actually absorbing some of the wavelengths that damage the keratin and its proteins. ... I have 2 more scientific journal articles outlines the full breakdown of coconut oil and its properties.

And it continues...

 

[glitch4200]

(Note to Self)
Snell's Law
Refractive Index of Coconut Oil at 50c.


http://www.florin-ag.ch/index.php?c5p=472&c5l=en

 

[glitch4200]

This is taken from link in post #289
Shows the refractive index of EVCO at 25 c. between the ranges of about 680 nanometers to 420 nanometers for the refractive test,
We can compare this to our spectrum graph.

The FTIR range tested in absorption in Coconut oil was between 600nm-4000nm
Here are the absoption ranges at different bonds..



but if we take a look at the spectrum of a incandescent bulb and a mercury vapor bulb, we can compare some ranges and see what is actually being effected by the oil itself.

 

[stojanovski92113]

I wonder if I should try this due to a very dry tortoise

 

[glitch4200]

I wonder if I should try this due to a very dry tortoise

Up to you. At this point i am trying to build science around my idea to propel it. It is working out quite well, the more i read, the more i like.

 

[stojanovski92113]

Up to you. At this point i am trying to build science around my idea to propel it. It is working out quite well, the more i read, the more i like.

I just might. Coconut oil is great stuff. I have never put anything on my torts she'll or skin except water. I have a big container of coconut oil.

 

[glitch4200]

I just might. Coconut oil is great stuff. I have never put anything on my torts she'll or skin except water. I have a big container of coconut oil.

Just make sure it's the right kind. If you have read the thread I'm sure you know which is the only one you can use. Cold pressed , unrefined.

 

[stojanovski92113]

Just make sure it's the right kind. If you have read the thread I'm sure you know which is the only one you can use. Cold pressed , unrefined.

For sure thanks

 

[puffy137]

Glitch , you sure you don't own a coconut plantation somewhere ? .......................Just Joking

 

[glitch4200]

This really made me laugh and it further shows that coconut oil is able to absorb the infrared emitted by incandescent and mercury vapor bulbs in the IR spectrum.... So from being on many facebook tortoise groups, instagram and here i have seen probably the most common lamps used in indoor tortoise keeping is a mercury vapor bulb and a incandescent bulb to generate heat for their tortoises. I want to focus on infrared for a second because this is very important ... Here we have a 75 watt incandescent light bulb... take a look at the relative spectral power of this lamp..... I had to look twice. Where does the peak of this lights power fall under? at 100% power it peaks in the 800nanometer according to this chart on the light box by exo terra.

but wait a second.... this lamp offers very little visible light.... and an extremely unbalanced IR range. I would argue, dangerous actually.. expecially combined with the "unfiltered" aspect of this type of light...

The 75 watt lamp PEAKS at the infrared level... and then the range falls off the chart.... falls off the chart... but yet those "unfiltered" wavelengths are creating havok on the external keratin and skin of all indoor kept torotises. Now that i can prove that coconut oil absorbs wavelengths past the 2000 nanometer range as according to the graph. Coconut oil has its water absorbed (yes it contains water) at around 3500 nanometers shown on this graph.

That is if i am reading this all right.... and i am understand these concepts correctly... hopefully i am ... can anyone agree or disagree with this?

 

[glitch4200]

"Two alkanes peaks which is attributed the
bending absorption of methylene (CH2) and methyl
(CH3) groups appears at 1465 and 1375 cm−1
respectively. Two peaks observed at 1740 and
1160 cm−1 are due to stretching absorption of aldehyde
(C = O) and esters (C-O) respectively. All these peaks
are stronger in virgin olive oil than in the virgin coconut
oil. However, the stretching absorption of (O-H) at
3450 cm−1 is strong in virgin coconut oil due to the
water content of the coconut oil sample. This stretching
(O-H) absorption is intermolecular hydrogen bonding
virgin coconut oil is slightly higher than virgin olive oil
(i.e. 0.893 and 0.863 g cm−3)"

^---- was taken from link in post #289

 

[glitch4200]

More dot connecting...

Lactic acid is known as a keratolytic. When applied to the skin it breaks down keratin, which we know is protein that forms the shell and part of the skin in tortoises... why is this important?

I read a scientific journal of the deterioration of virgin coconut oil..

This is what it said..

" The deterioration of vegetable oils can occur due to chemical hydrolysis, chemical oxidation, and microbial action [20] and is promoted by enzymes, metals, heat, light, and air [21].

One major cause of degradation of the VCO product that has been identified is microbial action
[26]. The microbial decomposition of VCO was determined after 4 days of incubation at 37 °C by extraction, conversion into tetramethylsilyl derivatives, and analysis by GCMS. At low moisture levels (<0.06 %), VCO was stable to microbial decomposition. However, above 0.06 % moisture, there was an increase in the formation of organic acids, in particular, lactic acid, indicating that microbial action by lactic acid-producing bacteria had occurred (Fig. 4 and Table 6). Therefore, one can conclude that the most important conditions that influence the physicochemical and microbial degradation of VCO are moisture, temperature, and the presence of microorganisms. This makes the VCO made by the fer- mentation method most susceptible to microbially induced degradation. However, these degradation processes can be minimized if the moisture level is maintained below 0.06 %."

Here is a snapshot of the article.


So we have an oil.. That decomposes slowly into lactic acid at higher temp exposure, higher UV exposure and by higher moisture levels and it is a keratolytic which breaks down keratin... as keepers we have high Uv, temp and moisture exposure in and indoor habitat .. well at least I do.. so we have the 3 things that propelled the microbial action of lactic acid ..

So maybe this explains my observation of smoothing out scutes? And the very little proliferation of keratin in my russians? Hence 2 to 4 applications a week for almost the last six months straight and constant build up of lactic acid surely has done some affect on the Keratin of my tortoises ? I suspect so.

Do not forget We also have the affect on the keratin which provides an oil barrier for the keratin that prevents moisture from escaping as the tortoise heats up from artifical lighting ...

This really connected some dots for me.. woo!