Coconut Oil

AmRoKo

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An spf of 10 is okay if you don't go out in the sun often but the recommended spf is 30 or greater if you're going to spend a significant amount of time outside and actually want the spf to be effective. Then depending on the spf you'll have to reapply it after a certain amount of time.
 

Anyfoot

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Hi Glitch4200

Just few a quick questions.

What is the distance from your bulb to your tortoises carapace?
What is the wattage of your bulb?
What type of bulb are you using?

Thank you

Craig
 

glitch4200

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Hi Glitch4200

Just few a quick questions.

What is the distance from your bulb to your tortoises carapace?
What is the wattage of your bulb?
What type of bulb are you using?

Thank you

Craig

The distance between the bulb and carapace is 12.5 inches in my Nibbles habitat. I use a 100 watt MVB on one side and a 100 watt incandescent bulb on the other. My habitat is 4.5x2.5 for him. I also have a uvb tube 15 inches away from ground (I know kinda far).

The distance between my bulb and carapace is 11.5 inches away from carapace. I use 2x 100 watt incandescent bulbs and a tube style uvb bulb in her habitst. All 3 lamps are same distance to her.
 

glitch4200

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http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread...-linked-with-extra-virgin-coconut-oil.110736/

This is my ongoing thread on the thermal imaging i have taken to show how my tortoises heat up with my current habitat and current EVCO applications. I got over 550 pictures to share that go with time frames, that i have finally paired up with pictures so I can show you all at least show you what these lamps can do to a tortoise in terms of heating in my current set up. I have an example of what my tortoise looks like after 5 hours basking, and an example of some localized heating i saw as a result of these lamps..

FLIR0478.jpg FLIR0477.jpg FLIR0266.jpg FLIR0265.jpg
 

glitch4200

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Some more localized heating I saw after only less then 30 minutes being exposed to these lamps... I would like to note that both of them had EVCO applied the night before i took these thermal images.

FLIR0244.jpg FLIR0243.jpg FLIR0422.jpg FLIR0421.jpg
 

glitch4200

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So you know when you soak your tortoise and you use your finger to judge the temperatures for the bath water.. So i was shocked to find out that "luke warm" water measured by a finger is a lot hotter than you would think.... I always use the same finger temp guide for every bath... and then i saw this.. They never minded the temperature but it is a lot higher then you would think "luke warm" water would be.

FLIR0602.jpg FLIR0601.jpg
 

glitch4200

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Pebbles here is fully heated, i took this about 2 hours before lights out. So after a long day being exposed to heat. This is what she looks like after soaking in some water for like 0min, 5 min, 10min and 13 min.



FLIR0544.jpg FLIR0543.jpg FLIR0560.jpg FLIR0559.jpg FLIR0570.jpg FLIR0569.jpg FLIR0572.jpg FLIR0571.jpg
 

WithLisa

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Some more localized heating I saw after only less then 30 minutes being exposed to these lamps... I would like to note that both of them had EVCO applied the night before i took these thermal images.
I don't think that the EVCO changes anything about the way they heat up. I guess it slows down the whole process a little bit, but it's just a thin layer and can't change the thermal conductivity and capacity of the shell and skin.

But your pictures show very well how bad the heat bulb works. Even after quite long basking there is still a 20° difference between top and bottom of the shell. Maybe it would help to put a flat stone under the bulb, to get some heat from below?
 

TortsNTurtles

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So you know when you soak your tortoise and you use your finger to judge the temperatures for the bath water.. So i was shocked to find out that "luke warm" water measured by a finger is a lot hotter than you would think.... I always use the same finger temp guide for every bath... and then i saw this.. They never minded the temperature but it is a lot higher then you would think "luke warm" water would be.

View attachment 116113 View attachment 116114

That is true. I learned that adding water to my turtles tank. I was surprised at what felt warm to me was a higher temp. than she needed for her tank. Temp. guns are good for soaks too.
 

Anyfoot

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@glitch4200

Hi

Do you have the equipment to do an experiment with heat distance related to humidity loss and how even the heat distribution is.

3 set ups.

1 x 100watt bulb at 12" high on a thermostat to get 90degf
2 x 50watt bulbs spaced at 6"ish apart at 12" high on a thermostat to get 90degf
1 x 150watt bulb at 18" high on a thermostat to get 90degf

Then could you check humidity below the bulb at tortoise level and how evenly the heat is distributed around a tortoise carapace.

If there is a difference then the next natural step would be with the one that has the best results, move the heat as high as possible but so it doesn't lose the required 90degf.



Cheers

Craig
 

glitch4200

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@glitch4200

Hi

Do you have the equipment to do an experiment with heat distance related to humidity loss and how even the heat distribution is.

3 set ups.

1 x 100watt bulb at 12" high on a thermostat to get 90degf
2 x 50watt bulbs spaced at 6"ish apart at 12" high on a thermostat to get 90degf
1 x 150watt bulb at 18" high on a thermostat to get 90degf

Then could you check humidity below the bulb at tortoise level and how evenly the heat is distributed around a tortoise carapace.

If there is a difference then the next natural step would be with the one that has the best results, move the heat as high as possible but so it doesn't lose the required 90degf.



Cheers

Craig


Yes. I could run an experiment like that. Although, I will need to tweak your experiment some to accommodate my situation lol I don't have a 150 watt bulb . I would also want the temp to go to 100 degrees, since that is the basking temp for my Russian tortoises. They often chose to bask in the 100 degree zone instead of the 90 degree zone.

I could test a 100 watt incadesent bulb and a 100 watt mercury vapor bulb at 12 inches with regards to how much humidity is taken at ground zero (beneath bulb) at 100 degrees. I use both bulbs and would like to show how fast humidity is taken from the ambient air. When I did my thermal imaging I also took into account humidity from start of the day to the end of the day. I started at 65% humidity at the beginning of the morning right before I turned my lamps on [1x mvb, 1x regular at 100watt, and tube uvb] and at the end of the day [12 hours] I recorded a ambient humidity level of 22%... that is 43% of the ambient humidity absorbing into the IR-A on average.. I have seen this happen for almost a year now. This has been recorded in my habitat on average a drop of about 35% humidity in less then 4 hours. That is staggering. All that moisture is taken from the tortoise if ambient humidity is super low too.. I hydrate my habitat every single day , multiple times a day too, to try and counteract this battle of hydrate/dehydrate.. the Keratin is not benefiting by constantly going through the cycle of absorbing water then having that water taken almost immediately as it is forced to sit under lamps that create this unnatural effect.

When I get time I will run this test.

:)
 

glitch4200

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I don't think that the EVCO changes anything about the way they heat up. I guess it slows down the whole process a little bit, but it's just a thin layer and can't change the thermal conductivity and capacity of the shell and skin.

But your pictures show very well how bad the heat bulb works. Even after quite long basking there is still a 20° difference between top and bottom of the shell. Maybe it would help to put a flat stone under the bulb, to get some heat from below?


I think these applications are preventing moisture from being taken because they even out the way the lamps hit the body of my tortoise, thus lessening localizing hot spots , creating more even heating.

I also think that because I feel after reading evco research with human hair this shows very well that when applied it prevents water from being taken as a result of high heat from straighter and curling irons.

Applying this idea to keratin which is very similar in material, if it prevents water from being taken and it lessens the cycling of hydrating/dehydrating the keratin, could it not help better mimic the heating style seen in the sun?

One of the thing i am noticing is that constant hydration and dehydration of the keratin can be a factor in pyramiding after reading all the information I could find in this forum.

As keratin expands and contracts it proliferates.. to try and stop unnatural water loss that is occurring while under "unfiltered" IR-A lamps.. this is just my idea.. I ponder and wonder if this is a cause in indoor kept tortoises and many health related issues.

Could an EVCO oil application allow better heat transfer?

Could it allow for less localized hot spots by spreading the "beam" style lights better around the carapace? Since evco conducts heat very well.

Could it help prevent pyramiding and cronic dehydration by preventing the constant stress of expansion and contraction in the shells keratin structure, as we constantly hydrate the environment to counteract these lamps that undoubtably and constantly dehydrat the tortoise ?

It's a vicious cycle many people outside this forum don't seen to understand. But it seriously makes me wonder ..
 

WithLisa

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Could it allow for less localized hot spots by spreading the "beam" style lights better around the carapace? Since evco conducts heat very well.
As far as I know, any oil conducts heat very bad. Your pictures also show hot spots, the heat doesn't spread.

But of course EVCO prevents the loss of moisture, since lipids are hydrophobic. The moisture just can't pass through the layer of oil.
 

glitch4200

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As far as I know, any oil conducts heat very bad. Your pictures also show hot spots, the heat doesn't spread.

But of course EVCO prevents the loss of moisture, since lipids are hydrophobic. The moisture just can't pass through the layer of oil.
We wouldn't know a definite difference unless we saw a comparison to a tortoise subjected to basically the same thing .. I bet though it would be more spread then the tortoise without the oil but that is my opinion .
 

Anyfoot

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Yes. I could run an experiment like that. Although, I will need to tweak your experiment some to accommodate my situation lol I don't have a 150 watt bulb . I would also want the temp to go to 100 degrees, since that is the basking temp for my Russian tortoises. They often chose to bask in the 100 degree zone instead of the 90 degree zone.

I could test a 100 watt incadesent bulb and a 100 watt mercury vapor bulb at 12 inches with regards to how much humidity is taken at ground zero (beneath bulb) at 100 degrees. I use both bulbs and would like to show how fast humidity is taken from the ambient air. When I did my thermal imaging I also took into account humidity from start of the day to the end of the day. I started at 65% humidity at the beginning of the morning right before I turned my lamps on [1x mvb, 1x regular at 100watt, and tube uvb] and at the end of the day [12 hours] I recorded a ambient humidity level of 22%... that is 43% of the ambient humidity absorbing into the IR-A on average.. I have seen this happen for almost a year now. This has been recorded in my habitat on average a drop of about 35% humidity in less then 4 hours. That is staggering. All that moisture is taken from the tortoise if ambient humidity is super low too.. I hydrate my habitat every single day , multiple times a day too, to try and counteract this battle of hydrate/dehydrate.. the Keratin is not benefiting by constantly going through the cycle of absorbing water then having that water taken almost immediately as it is forced to sit under lamps that create this unnatural effect.

When I get time I will run this test.

:)
 

HLogic

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that is 43% of the ambient humidity absorbing into the IR-A on average..
:)

Homework assignment: What happens to the RELATIVE humidity (which is what is being measured) in a sealed system (one in which water is neither entering or exiting) when the temperature of the sealed system is raised?
 

Anyfoot

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Yes. I could run an experiment like that. Although, I will need to tweak your experiment some to accommodate my situation lol I don't have a 150 watt bulb . I would also want the temp to go to 100 degrees, since that is the basking temp for my Russian tortoises. They often chose to bask in the 100 degree zone instead of the 90 degree zone.

I could test a 100 watt incadesent bulb and a 100 watt mercury vapor bulb at 12 inches with regards to how much humidity is taken at ground zero (beneath bulb) at 100 degrees. I use both bulbs and would like to show how fast humidity is taken from the ambient air. When I did my thermal imaging I also took into account humidity from start of the day to the end of the day. I started at 65% humidity at the beginning of the morning right before I turned my lamps on [1x mvb, 1x regular at 100watt, and tube uvb] and at the end of the day [12 hours] I recorded a ambient humidity level of 22%... that is 43% of the ambient humidity absorbing into the IR-A on average.. I have seen this happen for almost a year now. This has been recorded in my habitat on average a drop of about 35% humidity in less then 4 hours. That is staggering. All that moisture is taken from the tortoise if ambient humidity is super low too.. I hydrate my habitat every single day , multiple times a day too, to try and counteract this battle of hydrate/dehydrate.. the Keratin is not benefiting by constantly going through the cycle of absorbing water then having that water taken almost immediately as it is forced to sit under lamps that create this unnatural effect.

When I get time I will run this test.

:)
Hi there.

When ever you test anything in life you have to think of the 2 extremes. In this case the 2 extremes are
The sun, 1000's of miles away at 1000's of watts
and a 1 watt bulb strapped to the tortoise back. (laugh you may)lol
Both give the same heat but the bulb strapped to the tortoise back would give a local heat spot that is dry due to no atmosphere between tort and bulb. So we have to find a happy medium. I reckon the further away you can have a bulb/heat source and keep the required temp the better.
So for example you could have a 100watt bulb at 12" above a tort giving a hot spot on its shell and also dry it out because of the intense heat spot. Your thermal heat gauge proved this happens.
Or you could heat a whole room up from lets say 7ft high with as many bulbs as it takes to get the required heat at tort level. I think this would give us a much natural ambient temperature and not as an aggressive heat that causes the tort to dry. Also you are absorbing more of the atmosphere between heat source and bulb.
Hope you are understanding me. I am not very good at explaining what goes off in my head. lol
Its just my theory.
If it was proved correct, Then the next stage would be how to achieve this at the least expense.


Thank you

Craig
 

glitch4200

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Hi there.

When ever you test anything in life you have to think of the 2 extremes. In this case the 2 extremes are
The sun, 1000's of miles away at 1000's of watts
and a 1 watt bulb strapped to the tortoise back. (laugh you may)lol
Both give the same heat but the bulb strapped to the tortoise back would give a local heat spot that is dry due to no atmosphere between tort and bulb. So we have to find a happy medium. I reckon the further away you can have a bulb/heat source and keep the required temp the better.
So for example you could have a 100watt bulb at 12" above a tort giving a hot spot on its shell and also dry it out because of the intense heat spot. Your thermal heat gauge proved this happens.
Or you could heat a whole room up from lets say 7ft high with as many bulbs as it takes to get the required heat at tort level. I think this would give us a much natural ambient temperature and not as an aggressive heat that causes the tort to dry. Also you are absorbing more of the atmosphere between heat source and bulb.
Hope you are understanding me. I am not very good at explaining what goes off in my head. lol
Its just my theory.
If it was proved correct, Then the next stage would be how to achieve this at the least expense.


Thank you

Craig

That is excellent idea. I was thinking of buying a like 6 to 8 of low wattage sockets for some low wattage bulbs, combine the sockets into rows using a piece of nice wood, wire them up to an audio control unit [multi-port power box] that has a plug to the wall for power. Then use thermal house siding that has 99.7 uv and ir reflectivity to line the outside of the sockets creating depth[not touching of course] to create a deep dome effect to better direct heat.

Like you said instead of having one powerful 100 watt bulb as a basking light that creates localized hot spots, why not try many small incandescent bulbs rigged together to create a huge basking zone over a more spaced out area... hmmmm.....then we can change distance and add or subtract sockets if needed for achieving the heated zone that I want without creating such localized heating...

hmm ponder ponder ponder.. then I'll need to rent that thermal imaging camera again and run the tests using my invention and comparing it to the heating of a single 100 watt incandescent bulb.. interesting...

I'll see what I can rig togher. I already have an idea. Basic wood box with slits for ventilation to accommodate up to 8 small wattage sockets, 8 small wattage bulbs, line the box with thermal paneling to help create dome effect, all wired up to my power box that can be plugged in which will have a fuse to prevent shorting it all out.

This box can be adjusted easily by proving a sliding mechanism since I'll attach it to a sturdy wood frame so we can achieve the depth for the experiment.

I'll get to work.
 

glitch4200

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Homework assignment: What happens to the RELATIVE humidity (which is what is being measured) in a sealed system (one in which water is neither entering or exiting) when the temperature of the sealed system is raised?

Wouldn't you increase pressure in a sealed unit for humidity that is being heated with no where to go? (One in which water is neither entering or exiting) pressure would increase would it not?
 
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